There's something strange about 'the Mormon debater'

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_John Larsen
_Emeritus
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Post by _John Larsen »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:
So black and white. You're clinging to that "all true or all false thing" like it's some kind of long lost top ten pop hit. Kuhn? Popper? Child's play.


I am willing to accept that Mormonism is some true and some false. But why would you want to be associated with a religion that is part false? Since I accept no outside dogma, when I discover that I have a false belief, I abandon it. How is that not superior to your "gray" religion?
_why me
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Post by _why me »

Tal Bachman wrote:Life

Mormonism presents itself, at its very foundation, as a "true or false" religion.

[/I]

I think that the catholics also claim the complete truth dating back to Peter. Why don't you rail against them? Or is your 'expertise' just centered in Mormonism.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
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Post by _why me »

Tal Bachman wrote:Life

All the nonsense built up on top of that since, all the stupid ad hoc postmodern jazz Nibley introduced via Popper, all the stupid Kuhnianism since, all that stuff is just mindgames that otherwise intelligent people play on themselves when they can no longer take Mormonism on its own black-and-white, true-or-false terms, but are desperate to keep believing. It's all BS.
[/I]


Now after reading this short piece of writing I can honestly say that the words that you pieced together sounds like BS. Nonsense is in the eye of the beholder. Christianity is black and white. No room for grey when I read the words of Christ. Of course, this made him rather unpopular with various groups of people as Mormonism has become unpopular with your own crowd. What to do? Perhaps I can write to Monson and tell him to mix black and white together and create a new form of Mormonism.

Most people are desparate for something these days. The news is filled with desparate people.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
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Post by _why me »

Tal Bachman wrote:
Now certainly, there is lots of "grey" in the multitude of areas in which Mormon doctrine is a farrago of contradictions riven with embarrassing, telling gaps (no word yet on stem cell research, but very specific instructions on....EARRING wear). These vast regions of confusion and nothingness are sandboxes for the imaginations of the faithful to play in. There they can create any sandcastle of "truth" they want. And perhaps that is what you're talking about. Wanna be for stem cell research? No problem. Wanna be against it? No problem - etc.

[/I]

Yep, the faithful are playing in sandboxes, confused with their own nothingness, exclusively using their imaginations to create sandcastles of the truth they want to believe in. Gosh, that takes a lot of energy to do. I don't think so Tal. I haven't seen any members playing in sandboxes unless they are 2 years old.

In terms of earring wear, I find the LDS stance to be correct. I have seen teens with earring through their nose, ears, lips, eyebrows, bellybuttons, tongue etc. Not my cup of tea, opps, postum I am afraid. And of course, some have earrings in multiple places. Do you like that Tal for your teenagers?
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
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Post by _why me »

Tal Bachman wrote:
But underneath those sandboxes is an organization which claims EXCLUSIVE authority from the creator of the entire universe. It, supposedly, is "the way", and nothing else is "the way". That's not "my experience"; that's what Mormonism has claimed[I] from the very beginning until now. I invite you right now to produce even one scrap of authoritative LDS doctrine which says different.

Of course you won't, because they don't exist. But will that make a difference to you? Only you can say for sure...

[/I]


Perhaps a religion should claim exclusive authority like the Mormon and catholic faith do. Nothing wrong with that. At least they take a stance and are not wishy washy in their christianity. To each his or her own. You can always hang out with the UUs. Also, the wishy washy faiths seem to be in decline.

Now if a Mormon wishes to be wishy washy, no problem. I have done it for years.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Tarski
_Emeritus
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Post by _Tarski »

bcspace wrote:Everything is black and white without exception (There's the right and the wrong to every question)

No, there are plenty of questions for which there is no fact of the matter.

Example: is a pile of beans the size of a mountain a big pile of beans?? If yes, then is it still big if I remove one bean? If I have a big pile of beans is it still big if I remove one bean? If so then I could repeat this and inductively conclude that one bean is a big pile of beans.

What is the shortest path from the north pole of a sphere to the south pole?

More seriously, I think that the universe does not arrange itself to line up with our moral categories. There are moral conundrums for which there is no best solution.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
_Tal Bachman
_Emeritus
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Post by _Tal Bachman »

So black and white. You're clinging to that "all true or all false thing" like it's some kind of long lost top ten pop hit. Kuhn? Popper? Child's play.


---13 And the anger of the Lord is kindled, and his sword is bathed in heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth....15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant... 17 Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments...30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of cdarkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth

"Each of us has to face the matter—either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the Church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing". (Guess who said that, Life?)

WAKE UP.
_bcspace
_Emeritus
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Post by _bcspace »

Contending for the faith as per the scriptures. In addition, I think there is a big difference between teaching the gospel and not allowing others to control the discussion unchallenged, both of which we are asked to do.

29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.
30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away.

(Book of Mormon | 3 Nephi 11:29 - 30)

bcspace, if you have read the Book of Mormon, you do not understand it (at least as a Mormon).


Oh, I understand the Book of Mormon a lot better than you. Your problem is that you don't understand that all verses on a subject must be taken into account, Book of Mormon or otherwise. For example....

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should cearnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 1:3

Contend thou, therefore, morning by morning; and day after day let thy warning voice go forth; and when the night cometh let not the inhabitants of the earth slumber, because of thy speech. D&C 112:5

And it came to pass as he was going, to preach to those who believed on his word, he met a man who belonged to the church of God, yea, even one of their teachers; and he began to contend with him sharply, that he might lead away the people of the church; but the man withstood him, admonishing him with the words of God. Alma 1:7

etc.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_asbestosman
_Emeritus
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:32 pm

Post by _asbestosman »

Tarski wrote:What is the shortest path from the north pole of a sphere to the south pole?

Througn the middle of the sphere! ;)

More seriously, I think that the universe does not arrange itself to line up with our moral categories. There are moral conundrums for which there is no best solution.

I think they should just remove that silly train track that they use to make all those moral dillemas. It would make head hurt less not having to wonder whether I should flip the switch to the left and kill 2 people, to the right and kill 2 other people, or leave it alone and everyone dies. Come to think of it, if we just let everyone die that'd be the end of those moral conundrums. Problem solved.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
_solomarineris
_Emeritus
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Post by _solomarineris »

The Nehor wrote:I don't know about everyone else. I'm mostly trying to keep entertained.


Well, well...
Don't you think you'd be better served by entertaining self...hmm, like spending your tithing money on a great vacation?
Or something you like to have?
I can think of thousand uses right of the bat.
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