There's something strange about 'the Mormon debater'

[_beastie]

Sometimes I see it as a sort of hobby. Other times as a type of missionary work.

LOL! I just KNEW it. I made this very comment in a recent thread, that I bet some internet defenders of the faith count this as a form of "missionary work". It's the lazy man's missionary work. Hey, I'm defending the church on the internet, I'm doing missionary work! (puts check in column)

[_Inconceivable]

Contending for the faith as per the scriptures...

29 .. he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil.. (The Mormon Jesus)

(Book of Mormon | 3 Nephi 11:29)

bcspace, if you have read the Book of Mormon, you do not understand it (at least as a Mormon).

Oh, I understand the Book of Mormon a lot better than you. Your problem is that you don't understand that all verses on a subject must be taken into account, Book of Mormon or otherwise. For example....

...ye should cearnestly contend.. Jude 1:3

Contend thou, therefore, morning by morning.. D&C 112:5

and he began to contend with him sharply..Alma 1:7

Paul, an adulterous poser, the Pre-mormon Jesus Alma

..or the Mormon Jesus.

Great argument.

Keep contending.

[_The Nehor]

I don't know about everyone else. I'm mostly trying to keep entertained.

Well, well...
Don't you think you'd be better served by entertaining self...hmm, like spending your tithing money on a great vacation?
Or something you like to have?
I can think of thousand uses right of the bat.

Can't get the time off work for another one and I've already paid for my houseboat vacation this year.

[_harmony]

Paul, an adulterous poser, the Pre-mormon Jesus Alma

Wait a second. Paul, an adulterous poser? What the heck is that all about?

[_bcspace]

Great argument.

Keep contending.

Amen. I will. Notice the verse I was responding to clearly differentiates between contending and the spirit of contention. I do my best to fulfill D&C 71:7

[Dr. Sunstoned]

I perceive no such restraints, for in my defense of my beliefs, I will as easily appeal to the metaphysical as to the empirical, and to regard metaphysical discernment as being, generally speaking, more reliable, in terms of its use as a sensor of fact/truth, than the tools employed in any laboratory. Of course, the inherent difficulty of using metaphysical sensors is the degree of fine calibration required – calibration parameters which seldom have relevance for someone else. We communicate “beyond the veil” on a frequency peculiarly our own, and learn how to make judgments based on the peculiar nature of the signals we discern.

This is both fascinating and provocative. I've made precisely this argument for years with secularist critics of the Church, but using different terminology. I've normally used terms such as "perceptual range", "perceptual field", or "level of manifestation" (which may sound a little to Vedic for some, but no matter) to describe essentially what you are describing here, which I would decoct into the following general rules:

1. That which we are able to perceive is predicated upon the level of reality at which we perceive

2. Our perceptual range, or resolution, is predicated, to a great extent, upon our perceptual expectations.

3. We must become that which we wish to perceive. That is, to perceive reality at a specific level or bandwidth, our perceptual senses must be tuned, or calibrated, to that bandwidth or perceptual reference frame, as you have pointed out.
The ability to perceive spiritual things then, is a question of tuning, calibration, sensitivity, and perceptual range. Empirical science allows us very valuable perception of aspects of reality within a very narrow niche, or bandwidth, of actually existing reality, but, because of its own inherent perceptual limitations, nothing more.

Thanks.

[_Inconceivable]

Paul, an adulterous poser, the Pre-mormon Jesus Alma

Wait a second. Paul, an adulterous poser? What the heck is that all about?

in reference to the three verses bcspace noted about contention that somehow trumped the simple and difficult to twist words of the Mormon Jesus:

paul = A guy writing to Jude

an adulterous poser = Joseph Smith

Pre-mormon Jesus Alma = The Mormon Jesus chastised those that "contended" - which would include the ficticious Alma as well as others written about.

Like I noted, keep contending bc, coggs & others. Defend the indefenseable. Cover for a God you neither know or understand.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

So black and white. You're clinging to that "all true or all false thing" like it's some kind of long lost top ten pop hit. Kuhn? Popper? Child's play.

I am willing to accept that Mormonism is some true and some false. But why would you want to be associated with a religion that is part false? Since I accept no outside dogma, when I discover that I have a false belief, I abandon it. How is that not superior to your "gray" religion?

It's the old cliché about the Church, not the members, being true. But the Church includes the members, is composed of members, thus there is some interchange of true and false going on all the time. When I join a true Church I taint it automatically by my own imperfection.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

So black and white. You're clinging to that "all true or all false thing" like it's some kind of long lost top ten pop hit. Kuhn? Popper? Child's play.

---13 And the anger of the Lord is kindled, and his sword is bathed in heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth....15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant... 17 Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments...30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of cdarkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth

"Each of us has to face the matter—either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the Church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing". (Guess who said that, Life?)

WAKE UP.

Of course I know who said it, Tal. I would be interested to know what you understand the "true and living Church" to be. We would need to define the terms before moving on in this direction.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

Sometimes I see it as a sort of hobby. Other times as a type of missionary work.

LOL! I just KNEW it. I made this very comment in a recent thread, that I bet some internet defenders of the faith count this as a form of "missionary work". It's the lazy man's missionary work. Hey, I'm defending the church on the internet, I'm doing missionary work! (puts check in column)

I don't have any sort of "missionary work checklist," if that's what you're trying to say. I already provided a brief description of what I believe missionary work to be. Take what I said into account and your "LOL" will seem a little out of place, in my opinion.