Overnight Letter to Monson

[_BishopRic]

I find the church's current stand and teachings regarding homosexuality to be void of any Christ-like compassion. I think John Larsen nailed it: In 20-50 years, there will be so much pressure put on the church to change their policy that a "revelation" will be given. Gay rights is truly THE civil rights issue of today. In 50 years, our society (including members of the church) will look back at our day with the same disdain we now view the biases against African Americans 50 years ago.

Wondering No More

Very well said, and I agree with your "prophecy" about the policy changing in the future. The church has a history of changing key doctrines after the evidence and/or political pressure is strong enough they must adapt or suffer great losses.

[_wenglund]

Hate and fear are manifest by rejecting those that are different and misunderstood.

To think this, is to significantly lack understanding of a broad spectrum of motives (including very positive emotional impetus--such as love and a desire for peace and happiness) for so-called "rejection", and grossly over-simplifies and misconstrues the issue in ways highly uncharitable to the Church.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I don't feel it oversimplifies anything. I have many gay friends, and most were raised in the church. They were absolutely rejected, in every way, by the church. They did not develop good self-worth, being told constantly by church leaders that their feelings for others of the same sex was sinful.

Thank "God" that approach has recently changed! (And thank science for teaching us about it...)

When one is raised with that sort of complete shame and guilt, it is not easy to recover from it. Coincidently, a good friend's son is sitting in ICU as we speak from a drug overdose. He has had sexuality confusion, and was totally humiliated a few years ago by a black and white bishop (who didn't know what he was talking about) regarding his issues. He soon after started down the road to drub use to escape the shame he had, and now we hope he will live another day....

You can say what you will about this type of story, but it is all too common in Utah County particularly, and is certainly a major cause for the high drug use and suicide rate in the church. When one is taught that the way they are is an abomination, they struggle to feel loved.

The whole "love the sinner, hate the sin" phrase is analogous to telling a blossoming tree "you are beautiful, but that blossoming thing you do is wrong!" (to borrow the phrase from Carol Lynn Pearson's play "Facing East").

It is hate and fear, and I hope and pray the church will continue its evolution towards a culture of love.

I don't think either party (gays or the Church) are served well by this sort of one-side, and uncharitable judgementalism from you. To me, challenges like the ones you described, and hopes for a culture of love, are best resolved and accomplished, not by a flury of prejudiced accusations and finger-pointing either way, but by good faith efforts on all sides in working out what is in the best interest of each going forward.

This does not mean that either side will see eye-to-eye in every respect. But, as long as one can rightly trust that love is ultimately the shared motivator, that should sufice.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_BishopRic]

I don't think either party (gays or the Church) are served well by this sort of one-side, and uncharitable judgementalism from you. To me, challenges like the ones you described, and hopes for a culture of love, are best resolved and accomplished, not by a flury of prejudiced accusations and finger-pointing either way, but by good faith efforts on all sides in working out what is in the best interest of each going forward.

This does not mean that either side will see eye-to-eye in every respect. But, as long as one can rightly trust that love is ultimately the shared motivator, that should sufice.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I'm not interested in "serving" the church, just hoping for my human brothers and sisters to gain equal rights and respects. And I think history shows us that often, direct and straight shooting statements are unfortunately the only way to bring equality by "civil disobedience" (ala Martin Luther King), to organizations that are so set in their archaic ways that it takes outsiders to set action in motion.

I'm a bit more passionate about this today, as you can imagine with a friend clinging to life....

[_Mister Scratch]

I don't think either party (gays or the Church) are served well by this sort of one-side, and uncharitable judgementalism from you. To me, challenges like the ones you described, and hopes for a culture of love, are best resolved and accomplished, not by a flury of prejudiced accusations and finger-pointing either way, but by good faith efforts on all sides in working out what is in the best interest of each going forward.

Huh. Well, what "good faith efforts" has the Church engaged in, Wade? The electroshock therapy at BYU? Evergreen? Elder Packer's advice to deal with homosexuals with violence? Elder Oaks's admonition to parents that they should shun their gay children? How about your own "Center for Same-Sex Attraction Disorders"? Would that count as a "good faith effort"?

[_Mercury]

How about your own "Center for Same-Sex Attraction Disorders"? Would that count as a "good faith effort"?

In all seriousness I perceive wades "Center for same-sex attraction disorder" as a method for him to pick up tail.

[_wenglund]

I'm not interested in "serving" the church, just hoping for my human brothers and sisters to gain equal rights and respects.

Your hope has less chance of being realized as long as you persist in disrespecting the Church.

And I think history shows us that often, direct and straight shooting statements are unfortunately the only way to bring equality by "civil disobedience" (ala Martin Luther King), to organizations that are so set in their archaic ways that it takes outsiders to set action in motion.

History teaches us many things, not the least of which is how people can grossly misjudge others, and dysfunctionaly resort to judging others, all under the guise of some presumably higher and morally superior imparative.

I think Dr. Martin Luther King instructive here as well. There were not a few people who misjudged his motives (some rashly thought him driven our of hatred and fear of the "white man", and were loath to being persuaded otherwise). However, unlike with the reverends Jackson and Sharpton, who engaged in divisive, selective and prejudiced finger-pointing, Dr. King focused instead on working with people of all races towards the realization of his uniting "dream".

I'm a bit more passionate about this today, as you can imagine with a friend clinging to life....

I can certainly understand the passion. I just think, though, that it is terribly misapplied and misdirected, and only makes matters worse for all.

I find it useful, in such circumstances, to temper my rising emotions with rational perspective and proportion, and to channel my passions in functional ways. But, I can respect that we each may deal with harrowing circumstances differently.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

I don't think either party (gays or the Church) are served well by this sort of one-side, and uncharitable judgementalism from you. To me, challenges like the ones you described, and hopes for a culture of love, are best resolved and accomplished, not by a flury of prejudiced accusations and finger-pointing either way, but by good faith efforts on all sides in working out what is in the best interest of each going forward.

Huh. Well, what "good faith efforts" has the Church engaged in, Wade? The electroshock therapy at BYU? Evergreen? Elder Packer's advice to deal with homosexuals with violence? Elder Oaks's admonition to parents that they should shun their gay children? How about your own "Center for Same-Sex Attraction Disorders"? Would that count as a "good faith effort"?

I would answer your questions were I to believe you were asking in good faith and you had the capacity to understand and respect the answers. But, in each of those respects, you've long convinced me otherwise.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_BishopRic]

I'm not interested in "serving" the church, just hoping for my human brothers and sisters to gain equal rights and respects.

Your hope has less chance of being realized as long as you persist in disrespecting the Church.

I will and do respect the church for being an organization that many around me give reverence to. I see it as any other company or business. It exerts its authority and influence on its members as it chooses.

I do not give it any more or less credit than any other company that is required to allow certain civil rights to its members. As long as they (it) disrespects certain "types" of people, outsiders need to intervene to right the wrongs therein. This is happening -- slowly, but at least progress is being made, and the dialogue Monson has consented to is a promising step.

[_wenglund]

How about your own "Center for Same-Sex Attraction Disorders"? Would that count as a "good faith effort"?

In all seriousness I perceive wades "Center for same-sex attraction disorder" as a method for him to pick up tail.

Is there anyone else, with even a modicum of familiarity with my long dormant (since 2000), and now defunct SAD web page, who thinks "mercury's" alleged serious perception makes even the least bit of sense?

If so, would you be so kind as to explain how the conjectured "method" is supposed to work as suggested?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_BishopRic]

I don't think either party (gays or the Church) are served well by this sort of one-side, and uncharitable judgementalism from you. To me, challenges like the ones you described, and hopes for a culture of love, are best resolved and accomplished, not by a flury of prejudiced accusations and finger-pointing either way, but by good faith efforts on all sides in working out what is in the best interest of each going forward.

Huh. Well, what "good faith efforts" has the Church engaged in, Wade? The electroshock therapy at BYU? Evergreen? Elder Packer's advice to deal with homosexuals with violence? Elder Oaks's admonition to parents that they should shun their gay children? How about your own "Center for Same-Sex Attraction Disorders"? Would that count as a "good faith effort"?

I would answer your questions were I to believe you were asking in good faith and you had the capacity to understand and respect the answers. But, in each of those respects, you've long convinced me otherwise.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I understand your disdain for Scratch's approach, but he makes some very good points. Personally, I think a very helpful step the church could make is a simple apology for the wrongs they did to these gentle people. Can you begin to imagine the pain they have gone through in their life due to these actions? Wouldn't a simple "we're sorry" work wonders in repairing the damage done for so many years?