Rollo Tomasi wrote:Thomas Monson's daughter, Ann Dibb, called as 2nd counselor in Young Women's gen'l presidency;
Boyd Packer's son, Allan, called as GA to 1st Quorum of Seventy;
Henry Eyring' s son, Matthew, called as Area Authority Seventy;
Any others that I missed?
God the Father called his Son, Jesus Christ, to head his church and kingdom on earth. Like some here, the Scribes and Pharisees had a problem with that--particularly when Christ proclaimed this truth during his mortal ministry.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Hmmm
I think this might be a tad be teeny weeny like a bit different here. Well just ya know, I think this is a poor comparison.
that's OK Jason, wade is smarter than you and can fathom such eternal principals. You are just challenged to become smarter and accept his piss-poor analogies.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
To me, the only real problem are some members and non-members falsely and judgementily assuming that Church callings are necessarily an indication of "righteousness" and "goodness" (rather than on one's ability to fulfill the calling), and focusing too much on who is called (or not) to certain positions, rather than on how we each can best serve mankind whatever our lot or station in life. Those intent on the latter will likely care less what the presumed statistical breakout of close relationships, since they have far more important things to occupy their minds and actions.
Maybe the reason people think such calls are an indication of goodness and righteousness is due to the pedestal and in my opinion some times over done attempts making edifying comments about those called in such venues and general conference. I enjoyed the conference this past weekend but there were a few to many "isn't pres Monson so wonderful and isn't aren't we church leaders just wonderful. Read a few of the talks. Read Pres Packers remark. Members often hear lofty comments about these leaders so it is no wonder they think callings reflect God's special approval.
To me, the only real problem are some members and non-members falsely and judgementily assuming that Church callings are necessarily an indication of "righteousness" and "goodness" (rather than on one's ability to fulfill the calling), and focusing too much on who is called (or not) to certain positions, rather than on how we each can best serve mankind whatever our lot or station in life. Those intent on the latter will likely care less what the presumed statistical breakout of close relationships, since they have far more important things to occupy their minds and actions.
Maybe the reason people think such calls are an indication of goodness and righteousness is due to the pedestal and in my opinion some times over done attempts making edifying comments about those called in such venues and general conference. I enjoyed the conference this past weekend but there were a few to many "isn't pres Monson so wonderful and isn't aren't we church leaders just wonderful. Read a few of the talks. Read Pres Packers remark. Members often hear lofty comments about these leaders so it is no wonder they think callings reflect God's special approval.
I vividly remember missionaries going on and on about how if the world would only get past their prejudices, hinckley could solve EVERYTHING in the world. Insert any other q12 if the missionary was inclined at the time.
It seemed as if these supermen were the purest form of Mormonism, distilled and bottled into their leadership roles. Its a personality cult for a reason.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Rollo Tomasi wrote:Thomas Monson's daughter, Ann Dibb, called as 2nd counselor in Young Women's gen'l presidency;
Boyd Packer's son, Allan, called as GA to 1st Quorum of Seventy;
Henry Eyring' s son, Matthew, called as Area Authority Seventy;
Any others that I missed?
God the Father called his Son, Jesus Christ, to head his church and kingdom on earth. Like some here, the Scribes and Pharisees had a problem with that--particularly when Christ proclaimed this truth during his mortal ministry.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Wow, One irrationality refuted by another irrationality. Good going Wade.
It is not irrational. Wade was pointing out that they were called because of their parentage, just like Jesus was called because of his parentage.
Extending this thought, the closer the parents are to God by virtue of their calling, the more their offspring are worthy of elevation to higher callings as well. This is not some secular meritocracy, but a system of choosing those most worthy by the Church.
Rollo Tomasi wrote:Thomas Monson's daughter, Ann Dibb, called as 2nd counselor in Young Women's gen'l presidency;
Boyd Packer's son, Allan, called as GA to 1st Quorum of Seventy;
Henry Eyring' s son, Matthew, called as Area Authority Seventy;
Any others that I missed?
God the Father called his Son, Jesus Christ, to head his church and kingdom on earth. Like some here, the Scribes and Pharisees had a problem with that--particularly when Christ proclaimed this truth during his mortal ministry.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Wow, One irrationality refuted by another irrationality. Good going Wade.
It is not irrational. Wade was pointing out that they were called because of their parentage, just like Jesus was called because of his parentage. Extending this thought, the closer the parents are to God by virtue of their calling, the more their offspring are worthy of elevation to higher callings as well. This is not some secular meritocracy, but a system of choosing those most worthy by the Church.
It is irrational to believe that the space god elohim left Kolob to come down to earth and impregnate a teenage palestinian woman.
Do not try and justify this ludicrous belief with anything but suspicion, even if you have faith in such things.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
moksha wrote:It is not irrational. Wade was pointing out that they were called because of their parentage, just like Jesus was called because of his parentage. Extending this thought, the closer the parents are to God by virtue of their calling, the more their offspring are worthy of elevation to higher callings as well. This is not some secular meritocracy, but a system of choosing those most worthy by the Church.
This completely flies in the face of "God is no respector of persons". That no child of God's is anymore or any less in his eyes than any other child of God's. This false doctrine is the source of the oppression of women since Joseph succumbed to his base instincts and lost the prophetic mantle.
It is not irrational. Wade was pointing out that they were called because of their parentage, just like Jesus was called because of his parentage. Extending this thought, the closer the parents are to God by virtue of their calling, the more their offspring are worthy of elevation to higher callings as well. This is not some secular meritocracy, but a system of choosing those most worthy by the Church.
l could be wrong here but knowing Moksha as I do, I'm guessing this comment was just a tad bit, (OK, maybe a lot), "tongue in cheek."
;-)
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
Rollo Tomasi wrote:Thomas Monson's daughter, Ann Dibb, called as 2nd counselor in Young Women's gen'l presidency;
Boyd Packer's son, Allan, called as GA to 1st Quorum of Seventy;
Henry Eyring' s son, Matthew, called as Area Authority Seventy;
Any others that I missed?
God the Father called his Son, Jesus Christ, to head his church and kingdom on earth. Like some here, the Scribes and Pharisees had a problem with that--particularly when Christ proclaimed this truth during his mortal ministry.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
I think the problem is, statistically, the high occurrence of close relationships doesn't reflect the statistical probability given the distribution of membership. There is a solution which is to suggest, as you did, that certain families have a higher instance of leadership talent because they have been blessed that why by good. This was an argument that was used by early Church leaders when this practice was rampant. The problem is, claiming that the "Smith" family is more righteous than the general population has certain PR ramifications.
To me, the only real problem are some members and non-members falsely and judgementily assuming that Church callings are necessarily an indication of "righteousness" and "goodness" (rather than on one's ability to fulfill the calling), and focusing too much on who is called (or not) to certain positions, rather than on how we each can best serve mankind whatever our lot or station in life. Those intent on the latter will likely care less what the presumed statistical breakout of close relationships, since they have far more important things to occupy their minds and actions.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
I think the GAs are almost universally venerated as special people who should be modeled because they are exceptional people. I listened to portions of the last two funerals and it was clear, in the rhetoric that each increase in responsibility in the Church was considered a promotion. Even the Church News, when giving bios of mission presidents, stake presidents and GAs lists past callings like a resume. To not acknowledge this I think you would have to be either naïve or disingenuous.
It is not irrational. Wade was pointing out that they were called because of their parentage, just like Jesus was called because of his parentage. Extending this thought, the closer the parents are to God by virtue of their calling, the more their offspring are worthy of elevation to higher callings as well. This is not some secular meritocracy, but a system of choosing those most worthy by the Church.
l could be wrong here but knowing Moksha as I do, I'm guessing this comment was just a tad bit, (OK, maybe a lot), "tongue in cheek."
;-)
~dancer~
Didn't catch me as tongue in cheek initially. Now it seems a bit presumptuous and TIC.
Sorry Mok.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Moksha wrote:It is not irrational. Wade was pointing out that they were called because of their parentage, just like Jesus was called because of his parentage. Extending this thought, the closer the parents are to God by virtue of their calling, the more their offspring are worthy of elevation to higher callings as well. This is not some secular meritocracy, but a system of choosing those most worthy by the Church.
This completely flies in the face of "God is no respecter of persons". That no child of God's is anymore or any less in his eyes than any other child of God's. This false doctrine is the source of the oppression of women since Joseph succumbed to his base instincts and lost the prophetic mantle.
In other words, this is horse manure.
Just helping Wade construct his argument. Actually, I think that it is bad policy for the Church to engage in nepotism for it ultimately serves to discourage members who are not relatives - and that is 99% of the Church.