Mormon Magic

[_harmony]

and your point is?

You are an active member, right?

And Scottie is not?

Where are your instincts, Harm?

My instincts are always to consult the Lord and trust my inspiration. Everything and everyone else falls behind that.

[_Scottie]

How is this my own misconception?!?

Look at how tithing is portrayed in the LDS church? God gave you EVERYTHING, and all He asks for is 10% back.

And you bought it, hook, line, and sinker, didn't you? You didn't trust your own instincts, you didn't build your own relationship with God, you allowed someone else to get between you and God... and this is God's fault... why?

Think of it this way. Having been conditioned from birth to "see God's hand" in everything, I would see God's hand in every blessing and every tragedy that occured in my life. When a blessing would occur, I would mistakenly attribute it to my living righteously. When a tragedy would occur, I would look at my life and see how pitiful I was at obeying. Nothing really changed that drastically in my life. It was only my perceptions of how I thought God was judging me. How could I trust my instincts when I was so afraid that by trusting them I would be destitute? It's not as black and white as you want to make it.

According to the LDS church, God gave you the health and intelligence to work, therefore, all your labors are owed to Him as well.

And why did you not question that? Because you allowed someone else to get between you and God. You.

I suppose you could say that. My beliefs were that these go-betweens spoke for God. I trusted them.

As we all know, if you pray for something and the answer goes against LDS teachings, it was the devil answering you, not God. Once you get the proper LDS conformed answer, THEN it is from God. Just keep praying until you do.

[_antishock8]

What I find fascinating is that the would-be and self-appointed judges of LDS critical thinking, tend to be the last that most people would look to as authorities on critical thinking. ;-)

It is not wholly unlike white supremicist, who tend to be the last that most people would point to as indicitive of the supposed superiority of the white race.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ugh. Yet another terrible analogy.

[_Tal Bachman]

Many intelligent people continue to believe that Joseph Smith translated something called "reformed Egyptian" using decoding spectacles, only had sex with his teenaged foster daughters because an angel would have killed him if he hadn't, and that there are three, two-thousand-year-old "American Israelites" wandering around performing anonymous good deeds, like plowing fields while farmers are asleep.

How can this be?

The same way billions of people can believe that a man died on a cross and resurrected three days later, that that man was the son of God, that God sent him to redeem all of mankind from their sins. The same way billions of people can believe that a man named Abraham actually existed, that an angel visited a man named Mohammed.

---Exactly, Harmony. And I would add, the same way people can believe in tarot cards, astrology, and invisible elves living in their closet.

I think the answer is that posessing intelligence is not equivalent to critical thinking, any more than posessing a vast amount of wealth is equivalent to being an astute investor.

And yet we muddle along, generation after generation, living and dying for and by our beliefs. Trying to figure out that voice that guides us. Refusing to stand outside the fire in cold calculation, refusing to disregard the unexplainable, but instead seeking only our personal relationship with an entity we call God.

---Yup.

By the way, you accused me of insulting the intelligence of Mormons. But my original post specifically acknowledged the intelligence of many Mormons. Surely you are capable of understanding the difference between possessing intelligence, and simply making an unwarranted inference?

Also, to everyone, I just re-read my original post and I don't know what I was thinking with that analogy. I kind of want to go back and change it now, just like Joseph Smith did with his "Book of Commandments". Either the wang size/lovemaking prowess, or the military/war planning thing, would be better!

[_antishock8]

You definitely exhibit some of the traits I mentioned earlier. Notice how Harmony's disturbed disposition is a result of my refusal to give legitimacy to her delusions? She's actually upset that I describe someone who is mentally ill as mentally ill. She's upset because she clearly sees herself in my description, and doesn't like my audacity to point it out.

When you are qualified to declare who is mentally ill and who isn't, then I will take your word for it. Until then, you'll forgive me for knowing my own state of mind (not disturbed, not upset).

Let me ask the forum this:

Is it mental illness to believe that something that does not exist actually exists?

Is it mental illness to believe that if you follow x-y-z rules you will live after you die?

Is it mental illness to believe you communicate with something that does not exist?

The answer to all those questions is, emphatically, yes.

Are you seriously positing that believers (of any religion) are mentally ill?

Well, do Believers:

1) believe that something that does not exist actually exists?

2) believe if they follow x-y-z rules they will live after they die?

3) believe they communicate with something that does not exist?

The answer to all those questions is, emphatically, yes, and so they're crazy. That's not an unreasonable assertion.

[_karl61]

What I find fascinating is that the would-be and self-appointed judges of LDS critical thinking, tend to be the last that most people would look to as authorities on critical thinking. ;-)

It is not wholly unlike white supremicist, who tend to be the last that most people would point to as indicitive of the supposed superiority of the white race.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ugh. Yet another terrible analogy.

good analogies are hard (for me) it's really closer to a math problem...I remember trying to do them in my logic class with the professor saying, not quite...try again.

[_harmony]

Well, do Believers:

1) believe that something that does not exist actually exists?

This has not been proven. It has been asserted; however, that is different.

2) believe if they follow x-y-z rules they will live after they die?

Actually, even if you don't follow XYZ rules, everyone will live in another state of being after we all die/leave this state of being. At least, that's my take on it. Your mileage may vary.

3) believe they communicate with something that does not exist?

See above.

The answer to all those questions is, emphatically, yes, and so they're crazy. That's not an unreasonable assertion.

Now you changed the assertion. Now you assert they're all crazy. Before, you asserted they were all mentally ill. Which is it?

[_antishock8]

Well, do Believers:

1) believe that something that does not exist actually exists?

This has not been proven. It has been asserted; however, that is different.

2) believe if they follow x-y-z rules they will live after they die?

Actually, even if you don't follow XYZ rules, everyone will live in another state of being after we all die/leave this state of being. At least, that's my take on it. Your mileage may vary.

3) believe they communicate with something that does not exist?

See above.

The answer to all those questions is, emphatically, yes, and so they're crazy. That's not an unreasonable assertion.

Now you changed the assertion. Now you assert they're all crazy. Before, you asserted they were all mentally ill. Which is it?

Thank you, Madame. Hoo boy...