Church Surveillance

[_LifeOnaPlate]

Does anyone else find this story ridiculous? Why in the world would 'Church Security' care where he lived?

Quinn, in his career as a historian, has unearthed perhaps more embarrassing truths about the Church than anyone---ever. Moreover, it seems that BKP had a personal vendetta against him. I wouldn't be surprised if Elder Packer had personally ordered these Church Security agents to hunt Quinn down.

Unfortunately, the team Packer ordered after Quinn was headed up by Robert Fundabar. They never located Quinn.

[_wenglund]

Unfortunately, the team Packer ordered after Quinn was headed up by Robert Fundabar. They never located Quinn.

Perhaps their failure was due to over-extending the limited NCSC resource through a presumed massive effort to cover up the Church's complicity in the assassination of both Kennedy and King, as well as by plotting with the federal government to bring down the World Trade Center through controlled explosions and blamming it on radical Islamists, and later manipulate the elements so as to cause hurricane Katrina.

Then again, it may be due to their neglecting to utilize their impressive fleet of black helicopters or army of shape-shifters. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Doctor Steuss]

Unfortunately, the team Packer ordered after Quinn was headed up by Robert Fundabar. They never located Quinn.

Perhaps their failure was due to over-extending the limited NCSC resource through a presumed massive effort to cover up the Church's complicity in the assassination of both Kennedy and King, as well as by plotting with the federal government to bring down the World Trade Center through controlled explosions and blamming it on radical Islamists, and later manipulate the elements so as to cause hurricane Katrina.

Then again, it may be due to their neglecting to utilize their impressive fleet of black helicopters or army of shape-shifters. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Mister Scratch]

Does anyone else find this story ridiculous? Why in the world would 'Church Security' care where he lived?

Quinn, in his career as a historian, has unearthed perhaps more embarrassing truths about the Church than anyone---ever. Moreover, it seems that BKP had a personal vendetta against him. I wouldn't be surprised if Elder Packer had personally ordered these Church Security agents to hunt Quinn down.

Yes, the cruelty of hunting a man down so you can give him a letter regarding a disciplinary council......how horribly Orwellian of them.

I find the TBM reactions to all of this very telling. When accounts of the Church's "Orwellian" duplicity, record keeping, and surveillance are presented, TBMs tend to react, almost uniformly, with derision and dismissal, and usually with rather predictable jokes about tinfoil hats and the like. Why, I wonder, are TBMs so averse to discussing these things?

All due credit to Nehor, who at least is willing to go out on a limb and call Quinn (in not so many words) a liar. All due credit, too, for admitting that yes, in fact, the Church was apparently "hunting" someone down, in rather creepy and "Orwellian" fashion. As to whether or not this was "cruel," I only know, based on the account, that Quinn didn't want to deal with disciplinary letters due to his experience at BYU---i.e., his "pressured" resignation. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that he'd want to avoid going through that kind of experience a second time.

[_Mister Scratch]

Unfortunately, the team Packer ordered after Quinn was headed up by Robert Fundabar. They never located Quinn.

Perhaps their failure was due to over-extending the limited NCSC resource through a presumed massive effort to cover up the Church's complicity in the assassination of both Kennedy and King, as well as by plotting with the federal government to bring down the World Trade Center through controlled explosions and blamming it on radical Islamists, and later manipulate the elements so as to cause hurricane Katrina.

Then again, it may be due to their neglecting to utilize their impressive fleet of black helicopters or army of shape-shifters. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade:

Do you believe the Church is justified in "monitoring" members in the way that it does? Y/N?

[_wenglund]

Does anyone else find this story ridiculous? Why in the world would 'Church Security' care where he lived?

Quinn, in his career as a historian, has unearthed perhaps more embarrassing truths about the Church than anyone---ever. Moreover, it seems that BKP had a personal vendetta against him. I wouldn't be surprised if Elder Packer had personally ordered these Church Security agents to hunt Quinn down.

Yes, the cruelty of hunting a man down so you can give him a letter regarding a disciplinary council......how horribly Orwellian of them.

I find the TBM reactions to all of this very telling. When accounts of the Church's "Orwellian" duplicity, record keeping, and surveillance are presented, TBMs tend to react, almost uniformly, with derision and dismissal, and usually with rather predictable jokes about tinfoil hats and the like. Why, I wonder, are TBMs so averse to discussing these things?

Oh...but we aren't averse to discussing these things. We have been quite liberal in sharing our opinions and giving your beliefs on the subjectmatter whatever level of seriousness we think them due--kind of how you do the same with we apologists and our beliefs about the Church. You just are loath to take even the slightest taste of your own medicine. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Mister Scratch]

Oh...but we aren't averse to discussing these things. We have been quite liberal in sharing our opinions and giving your beliefs on the subjectmatter whatever level of seriousness we think them due--kind of how you do the same with we apologists and our beliefs about the Church. You just are loath to take even the slightest taste of your own medicine. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Where have I ever ridiculed your beliefs about the Church, Wade? Where have I ever labeled your beliefs in anywhere near the same vein as your conspiracy theory stuff? Feel free to prove me wrong on this. Otherwise, you are guilty of rank hypocrisy.

[_The Nehor]

I find the TBM reactions to all of this very telling. When accounts of the Church's "Orwellian" duplicity, record keeping, and surveillance are presented, TBMs tend to react, almost uniformly, with derision and dismissal, and usually with rather predictable jokes about tinfoil hats and the like. Why, I wonder, are TBMs so averse to discussing these things?

All due credit to Nehor, who at least is willing to go out on a limb and call Quinn (in not so many words) a liar. All due credit, too, for admitting that yes, in fact, the Church was apparently "hunting" someone down, in rather creepy and "Orwellian" fashion. As to whether or not this was "cruel," I only know, based on the account, that Quinn didn't want to deal with disciplinary letters due to his experience at BYU---I.e., his "pressured" resignation. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that he'd want to avoid going through that kind of experience a second time.

If I was averse to discussing it, Uncle Creepy, I would have avoided this thread.

Quinn could have EASILY avoided having much to do with the whole process. Call Stake President. Tell him you are NOT coming to any disciplinary hearing and they can do what they like. The Church often 'hunts' people down for disciplinary hearings. However, I don't see any evidence that the 'Mormon Gestapo' was behind it. Could it have been his Home Teachers? Members of the High Council? Confused Missionaries?

[_wenglund]

Wade:

Do you believe the Church is justified in "monitoring" members in the way that it does? Y/N?

Yes...I believe it quite reasonable for the Church to take roll in Sunday School and Priesthood meetings and to count heads in Sacrament Meetings, just as I believe the same for public educational systems and their respective coursework and activities. It is one of many measurement tools utilized by both sectors (LDS religion and secular schools) for assessing group and personal development (spiritual or temporal).

Nothing sinister there. But then, I am not inclined to letting my imagination run away with itself on conspiratorial matters.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_quaker]

I dismiss them because I remember trying to locate people by asking around about them, looking in phone directories, and every other means that I came across that might provide an indication of where I might be able to talk to them. I can easily see those rather innocent attempts at locating a person being made into a tale distrubuted around RfM as a sign that LDS Inc. is in fact Big Brother. All I was trying to do was get an update on the person so that I could make up for their failure to keep their records in some order. Even if they wanted them sent to Salt Lake for storage, that's at least better than the condition in which they are left.

I dare say that most attempts to locate members can be construed as undercover priesthood record keeping special forces missions. Sometimes people get overzealous, of course. But the more and more scary stories I hear about the Mormon Church the more I realize how untrue most are. It is desensitizing to read that everything you do in good faith is considered brainwashed roboticism. Maybe if you want people to take such tales seriously then you should avoid promoting every spruced up story meant to portray LDS as crazy zealots.