Forgiveness

Post by **_Moniker** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:40 am

I went to MAD and saw a thread on it which made me question how forgiveness is viewed in a religious context.

The OP mentioned that we rationalize behavior when we forgive. That seems rather odd, to me. I think to forgive I always recognize the behavior or actions of others, recognize what they did, the trauma or whatnot it caused and then choose to let it go. Don't downplay it, rather embrace that I know what was done, and I have no power to change what was done -- only how I will carry forward.

I was interested in how it seemed to be the case where forgiveness is given to another person in the thread. Yet, I never think of forgiveness as for the one that causes distress and more for the one that was hurt in some manner. Truth be told I hear about forgiveness a lot from religious persons and yet not quite certain why they believe the special forgiveness card is given to others. If I grovel before you then will you please forgive me sort of thing? It's putting the "sinner" in the position of having to confess. Some people will never confess. Some people don't care that they hurt others. Some people have no qualms with deceit, betrayal, lies, etc... and will never repent. In the Church is it taught you forgive someone even if they never ask for said forgiveness?

I've never thought about forgiveness in the sense that it was given to someone else. We can forgive people without them ever asking for it. We can forgive people without ever telling them we do so. I do that ALLLL the time! I must, or else I would hold on to grudges, become bitter, cynical, etc...

So, in LDS and Christianity in general is the idea that you forgive those that ask for forgiveness? What do you do with those that never ask for forgiveness? Never admit to wrong doing?

The idea that you only forgive those that ask for forgiveness seems to follow from the mindset of God asking for his "children" to confess, etc... Yet, I don't know if that seems like a really sensible way to think about the concept of forgiveness. It seems backwards almost. No doubt it's pleasant when someone recognizes what they did and can own up to it, yet, when they don't are you supposed to forgive them anyway?

In the Church is it held up as a special card that some hold on to and others must grovel before them before it is given? Seems strange, to me....

How is this dealt with in the LDS Church?

Post by **_Blixa** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:07 am

Wait, you saw something poorly written on MADD?

Post by **_Moniker** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:08 am

Blixa wrote:Wait, you saw something poorly written on MADD?

Shocking, I know.

Post by **_Blixa** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:14 am

Did it express the worldview of a superstituous and credulous medieval peasant? Or did it purport a grasp of contemporary cultural theory? Did it make overuse of the term "bullseye" and present a mashup of random Native American/MesoAmerican/Aztec/Hebrew idioms and passages from the Book of Mormon?

Post by **_Moniker** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:20 am

I think it was written by a superstitious medieval peasant.... tell me what you make of it.

If someone did something to you or you did sinned or something would forgiving that person or yourself be rationalizing? How do you do one without the other? I guess by rationalizing I mean saying to the other person or yourself, its not that bad, don't worry about it or don't beat yourself up or something like that.

'Course the thread wouldn't be complete without JAdams popping in. He's my imaginary internet spittin' tabaccy rockin' on his front porch grandfatherly sorta figure that I always look for on MAD.

Post by **_Blixa** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:24 am

Moniker wrote:I think it was written by a superstitious medieval peasant.... tell me what you make of it.

If someone did something to you or you did sinned or something would forgiving that person or yourself be rationalizing? How do you do one without the other? I guess by rationalizing I mean saying to the other person or yourself, its not that bad, don't worry about it or don't beat yourself up or something like that.

'Course the thread wouldn't be complete without JAdams popping in. He's my imaginary internet spittin' tabaccy rockin' on his front porch grandfatherly sorta figure that I always look for on MAD.

heh. I thought of him and had a stick figure hillbilly in my previous post, but then I deleted it as an insult to all hill dwellers.

As for the post itself, its got that non-native-speaker-sounding-native-speaker-who-doesn't-read-much inflection that baffles utterly.

Post by **_Moniker** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:29 am

I've read it a few times now... I think I got the gist of the question. Yet, it umm... just left something to be desired, for me. :)

Post by **_Mercury** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:21 am

Moniker wrote:I think it was written by a superstitious medieval peasant.... tell me what you make of it.

If someone did something to you or you did sinned or something would forgiving that person or yourself be rationalizing? How do you do one without the other? I guess by rationalizing I mean saying to the other person or yourself, its not that bad, don't worry about it or don't beat yourself up or something like that.

'Course the thread wouldn't be complete without JAdams popping in. He's my imaginary internet spittin' tabaccy rockin' on his front porch grandfatherly sorta figure that I always look for on MAD.

I think I found the peasant who wrote the OP on MAD. Strangely he looks like Eric Idle:

Post by **_Moniker** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:32 am

Oh! Dear... now I feel bad about mentioning I read something on MAD. I just thought the OP was phrased rather oddly and the concept of forgiveness appeared off to me, in some manner. The replies also mentioned sin and some other things that appeared as if forgiveness was more important to the sinner rather than to the one actually hurt... which appears to come from religious views and not how forgiveness usually impacts the one that actually does the forgiving.

PLEASE FORGIVE ME MAD and especially the one that wrote the OP. :)

Post by **_Inconceivable** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:40 am

That's funny, Merc.

Forgiveness has always been a strange concept for me. My TBM grandmother used to say, "I'll forgive, but I'll never forget". To me, her philosophy holds our angst hostage within us. I agree, letting it go releases a very real burden.

I've also seems to me that holding others for contempt for too long has the effect of transforming us towards the character we hate the most in that person.