Mormon PR crying foul over the FLDS raids

[_John Larsen]

The LDS Church is in no way responsible for the goings on in the FLDS church, period.

The current Church is not responsible. However, the FLDS Church is a legitimate legacy of the teachings of the early Church.

[Guest]

The rapes of these little girls is on the hands of the LDS church.

How so?

Think back on real history, not imagined.

Joseph Smith "restored" the principle of plural marriage, and practiced it. After his death, Brigham Young led a larger portion of his followers westward and continued to practice it, as did a number of the Saints.

The Church continued to resist government action to stop the practice of polygamy. Even when the Manifesto was issued in 1890, it was ambiguous in its language and interpreted differently by different members. Polygamy continued to be practiced, even though much of the practice went underground. Mormon settlements in Mexico and other locations, like Short Creek, continued to openly practice polygamy as members of the LDS Church, not as a splinter group. It was only as a result of the Reed Smoot hearings in the early 1900's that a Second Manifesto was issued by the Church, after which time those practicing polygamy were excommunicated.

Prior to that time, even after the issuance of the first Manifesto, polygamy as a principle continued to be practiced with a wink and a smile, even though underground, out of mainstream view, or out of the country. It was widely felt among church membership that the church had only responded to political pressure from the government, even in the issuance of the Second Manifesto leading to excommunications.

Suddenly several church members whose practice was previously quietly condoned or ignored were expelled from the church but clung to its teachings. Does the LDS Church bear no responsibility in the teaching or cultural conditioning of those individuals to believe, based on the history of their ancestors and the teachings of their founding prophet, that polygamy was indeed a correct principle? Should they be expelled from the LDS Church and abandon altogether the teachings of Joseph Smith?

It is not unexpected that they would retain as much of the beliefs and practices of the church in which they had been raised and fashion their own community in which to continue to observe and practice what they felt was correct.

So the practice has been condoned for many years, and suddenly those practicing it are excommunicated, left to make their own isolated community.

Does the LDS Church really play no role in this? To suggest that is fraught with difficulty.

Of course it is the expedient course of action in a 21st Century America, and world, for LDS Church leadership to proclaim that there's no connection whatsoever. But it's really misleading and incorrect, and it's equally incorrect to suggest that the LDS Church bears no responsibility for having taught a principle, engaged in double-speak regarding it (one voice for the government, another for the membership), and expelled those it had previously condoned and rewarded.

Saying that the FLDS Church had its origins in "splitting off" from the LDS Church is misleading at best. Those people were excommunicated, and had to form their own sense of religious community as a result. They didn't leave voluntarily and decide to start a new church.

[_the road to hana]

It's noteworthy that on the LDS.org newsroom page, juxtaposed with the main banner story, "Reports of Polygamy Story Vary Across the World," is to its side the headline, "Extrabiblical Scriptures are Not Barrier to Christianity."

Now, could that headline read, "Polgaymy is Not Barrier to Mormonism" and be equally correct?

[_The Nehor]

I thank the FLDS every time I see this kind of hand wringing!

You thank those involved in pedophilia and incest because it makes people you don't like uncomfortable???

Sicko.

[_the road to hana]

I thank the FLDS every time I see this kind of hand wringing!

You thank those involved in pedophilia and incest because it makes people you don't like uncomfortable???

Sicko.

How is it pedophilia for the FLDS and not for Joseph Smith?

[_Nevo]

Quinn is a lazy researcher (by definition).

You mean the guy who transcribed thousands of diaries, letters, minute books, and other manuscripts in various archives over more than two decades at a rate of up to 25 pages a day? Whose work is described by Walker, Whittaker, and Allen in their survey of Mormon historiography as "encyclopedic"? Whose six books span some 4,000 pages and whose Origins of Power alone contains nearly 1,300 endnotes? Whose scholarship no less a figure than Richard Bushman has characterized as "assiduous"? Right.

Right. How else could he have come to the wrong conclusion in this case?

The wrong conclusion? That the Church authorized post-Manifesto plural marriages? Well, they did. There is abundant documentation for this (see, e.g., B. Carmon Hardy, Solemn Covenant: The Mormon Polygamous Passage).

[_personage]

Quinn is a lazy researcher (by definition).

Whatever one thinks of Quinn he is not a lazy researcher. Another reason to classify you as a light weight wanna be apologist.

I don't think you get enough credit for being open minded Jason. You always post a comment that reminds me that I should be more open minded as a critic.

[_John Larsen]

Quinn is a lazy researcher (by definition).

Whatever one thinks of Quinn he is not a lazy researcher. Another reason to classify you as a light weight wanna be apologist.

I don't think you get enough credit for being open minded Jason. You always post a comment that reminds me that I should be more open minded as a critic.

If there were more Jasons in the Church, I might still be going.

[_Jason Bourne]

Quinn is a lazy researcher (by definition).

Whatever one thinks of Quinn he is not a lazy researcher. Another reason to classify you as a light weight wanna be apologist.

I don't think you get enough credit for being open minded Jason. You always post a comment that reminds me that I should be more open minded as a critic.

If there were more Jasons in the Church, I might still be going.

Thanks to both of you.

[_The Nehor]

I thank the FLDS every time I see this kind of hand wringing!

You thank those involved in pedophilia and incest because it makes people you don't like uncomfortable???

Sicko.

How is it pedophilia for the FLDS and not for Joseph Smith?

Porter acts like it's the most horrible thing in the world....back then..... but then when it happens now he's excited and thanks the perpetrators because he wants it to embarass people?

I stand by my assessment of sicko. We have done enough threads regarding Joseph and the FLDS being similar that I don't feel the need to discuss it again here. If you want to in another thread, I'd be glad to throw in my 2 cents.