Boaz & Lidia wrote:I thank the FLDS every time I see this kind of hand wringing!
You thank those involved in pedophilia and incest because it makes people you don't like uncomfortable???
Sicko.
How is it pedophilia for the FLDS and not for Joseph Smith?
Porter acts like it's the most horrible thing in the world....back then..... but then when it happens now he's excited and thanks the perpetrators because he wants it to embarass people?
I stand by my assessment of sicko. We have done enough threads regarding Joseph and the FLDS being similar that I don't feel the need to discuss it again here. If you want to in another thread, I'd be glad to throw in my 2 cents.
If you qualify it as pedophilia currently it cannot be anything else for Joseph Smith.
If your founding "prophet" was by your own admission a pedophile, it does raise questions and concerns regarding the legitimacy of his claims.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
Whatever one thinks of Quinn he is not a lazy researcher. Another reason to classify you as a light weight wanna be apologist.
I don't think you get enough credit for being open minded Jason. You always post a comment that reminds me that I should be more open minded as a critic.
If there were more Jasons in the Church, I might still be going.
I wouldn't, because it still wouldn't be true, and it's not true even as Jason keeps going. That said, I do like Jason as well.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Whatever one thinks of Quinn he is not a lazy researcher. Another reason to classify you as a light weight wanna be apologist.
I don't think you get enough credit for being open minded Jason. You always post a comment that reminds me that I should be more open minded as a critic.
If there were more Jasons in the Church, I might still be going.
I wouldn't, because it still wouldn't be true, and it's not true even as Jason keeps going. That said, I do like Jason as well.
the road to hana wrote:If you qualify it as pedophilia currently it cannot be anything else for Joseph Smith.
If your founding "prophet" was by your own admission a pedophile, it does raise questions and concerns regarding the legitimacy of his claims.
Yes, it can. If I went back to ancient (or still existing cultures) where girls are routinely married at 13 or 14 does that make all the men in that culture pedophiles?
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
the road to hana wrote:If you qualify it as pedophilia currently it cannot be anything else for Joseph Smith.
If your founding "prophet" was by your own admission a pedophile, it does raise questions and concerns regarding the legitimacy of his claims.
Yes, it can. If I went back to ancient (or still existing cultures) where girls are routinely married at 13 or 14 does that make all the men in that culture pedophiles?
It would be different had these girls chosen to marry monogamously.
However, that is not the case today or back in the polyg years of your beloved leaders.
You are aware these FLDS girls are being coerced into marriage using the same tactics and "doctrine" as used by the early leaders that you are defending.
You can't have it both ways Neh. All polygamists are sick or all are not.
the road to hana wrote:If you qualify it as pedophilia currently it cannot be anything else for Joseph Smith.
If your founding "prophet" was by your own admission a pedophile, it does raise questions and concerns regarding the legitimacy of his claims.
Yes, it can. If I went back to ancient (or still existing cultures) where girls are routinely married at 13 or 14 does that make all the men in that culture pedophiles?
It would be different had these girls chosen to marry monogamously. However, that is not the case today or back in the polyg years of your beloved leaders.
You are aware these FLDS girls are being coerced into marriage using the same tactics and "doctrine" as used by the early leaders that you are defending.
You can't have it both ways Neh. All polygamists are sick or all are not.
All marriages are abusive or none of them are. You can't have it both ways.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
the road to hana wrote:If you qualify it as pedophilia currently it cannot be anything else for Joseph Smith.
If your founding "prophet" was by your own admission a pedophile, it does raise questions and concerns regarding the legitimacy of his claims.
Yes, it can. If I went back to ancient (or still existing cultures) where girls are routinely married at 13 or 14 does that make all the men in that culture pedophiles?
That's the thing. Culture determines sexual norms, and there are certain cultures from different time periods that considered old men marrying multiple women and 13 and 14 year old girls as perfectly normal. If the girls are raised in that kind of culture, they probably wouldn't think anything of it. The culture of the United States in the 19th century had very different sexual norms from the ancient cultures. Marrying multiple women including young girls was never "normal" behavior in the United States or most modern western cultures.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
the road to hana wrote:If you qualify it as pedophilia currently it cannot be anything else for Joseph Smith.
If your founding "prophet" was by your own admission a pedophile, it does raise questions and concerns regarding the legitimacy of his claims.
Yes, it can. If I went back to ancient (or still existing cultures) where girls are routinely married at 13 or 14 does that make all the men in that culture pedophiles?
Joseph Smith wasn't part of an "ancient" culture, and was also not part of a culture where people routinely married 13- or 14-year-old girls, multiple women, or women married to other men.
People in the FLDS Church are only doing it because Joseph Smith practiced and taught it.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
We can go back in history for thousands and thousands of years, analyze all sorts of tribal rituals, discuss a variety of primitive sexual strategies, and ponder prehistoric parenting, but it won't address our discussion, which is modern civilized society and the treatment of children.
In modern civilized Western society we have collectively decided we will not allow men to rape girls, even if they claim God told them to.
Nothing to argue about. Excuses don't work for civilized, decent, emotionally healthy men and women.
It is NOT OK. When will these guys get over it. We are not going to allow it.
It doesn't matter if six thousand years ago males owned women. It doesn't matter if a few ancient Kings had harems. It doesn't matter if some men fantasize that young girls want to be raped by them. It doesn't matter if some guys think God wants them to use girls to spread their seed. It doesn't matter if they tell us God commands it.
It is NOT OK!
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
the road to hana wrote:If you qualify it as pedophilia currently it cannot be anything else for Joseph Smith.
If your founding "prophet" was by your own admission a pedophile, it does raise questions and concerns regarding the legitimacy of his claims.
Yes, it can. If I went back to ancient (or still existing cultures) where girls are routinely married at 13 or 14 does that make all the men in that culture pedophiles?
It would be different had these girls chosen to marry monogamously. However, that is not the case today or back in the polyg years of your beloved leaders.
You are aware these FLDS girls are being coerced into marriage using the same tactics and "doctrine" as used by the early leaders that you are defending.
You can't have it both ways Neh. All polygamists are sick or all are not.
All marriages are abusive or none of them are. You can't have it both ways.
This coming from someone who is having a tough time getting married?
It is obvious you are obliged to defend Joseph Smith, BY, JT, et al.
Your only defense to them having sex with teen girls is that god told them to do so, right?
But on the other hand, Warren Jeffs is a lying misguided sex crazed monster, correct?