What is the Greatest Challenge Facing Mopologetics?

[_Always Thinking]

Move on, nothing to see here...

Coggs, you should put this at the beginning of your posts and save us all a little time.

KA

Yessss

[_moksha]

I'm still amazed that the Book of Abraham is even viewed as a problem. It stands as a witness of Joseph Smiths prophetic mantle, especially when compared to the other Book of Abrahams that have come forth since then. The same can be said of the Book of Enochs that have come forth. On a doctrinal basis alone they are brilliant and shed forth more light on the nature of God and man than nearly any other books of scripture!

By the hoary hosts of Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah and Korash, I think you have a splendid point there about shedding more light.

[_ludwigm]

No more sidestepping, redefining the words, "out of context", "private opinion", no more pointless definitions

With the Church, this has never been the case.

With the members of this church (especially the apologists including You) it was, is and will be the case. The members make any church - without the members there is no such thing as church.

"Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith"

This is exactly the weapon you've been looking for. What could be better than being able to point to an official publication while saying "It says right here...."?
Now that you have it (and you've always had it, by the way), what are you afraid of? Perhaps your pet theories are destroyed with such a clear statement (this cuts both ways, for exmos and gospel hobbyists alike by the way)? They were destroyed long ago.....

What about
- doctrines which are not reside in the documents listed above ("... as man is God was before ..." and more)
- texts which can be found in the documents listed above but nobody knows if they were doctrines ("... Kolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubeam ..." and much, much more)

As far as I know, You DID define all the manuals as doctrinal -> parts of the doctrine. What did happen with You?

That text above (which is not doctrine by its own definition) is one of the pointless definitions. "Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine." Which statement made by... does constitute doctrine and which doesn't - nobody knows, nobody defines, nobody has the courage to define, including the Lord's anointed ones.

Something to sidestepping.
I have drawn one working way to define the doctrine. In the real word, this is the way to define something. You didn't reflected.
Isn't there anybody who can define something what is important? Or can do something similar?

Do You know the meaning of the words definition or list?

[_CaliforniaKid]

Joseph did have a way of making the complex simple to be understood. Could we have asked for a better dispensation head?

So are you acknowledging that he authored the Book of Abraham, then?

[_Sethbag]

Wade, of course we could have asked for a better dispensation head. We could ask for one who didn't spiritually manipulate young women into putting out for him behind his wife's back.

We could have asked for one who didn't lead the Saints into investing in an illegal bank that failed and took a lot of peoples' money with it.

We could have asked for one who didn't make up books of scripture and pass them off as authentic ancient texts, thus undermining his credibility to future generations.

We could have asked for one who didn't constantly have to lie and cover up his secret sexual escapades, and who didn't spread nasty rumors about people who rebuffed his advances, as a way of intimidating them and also of trying to discredit them if they posed a danger to him.

We could have asked for one who wouldn't go around boasting about his accomplishments, who wouldn't have had himself elected mayor of his own miniature city, general of his own miniature army, and who wouldn't have had himself secretly crowned King of the whole world, and tried to run for President of the United States. Who wouldn't have had his followers build him a mansion house. Who wouldn't have used blatant, knowing lies to entice people to buy property from him in a disease-infested swamp which he knew to be mortally dangerous, etc.

We could have asked for one who wouldn't have hired himself out as a treasure seeker using a magic rock in a hat to defraud people into believing he could make them rich, and then not actually find anything. We could have asked for one who wouldn't have needed to have eloped with the woman who became his wife because her family disapproved of his character. But going behind the back of family was something he was very good at, because he was going behind Emma's back for sex with dozens of other women in the last few years of his wife. He was f**king some of her best friends and she didn't even know it. My how they must have smirked at her behind her back, because they certainly knew. In the words of Eliza R. Snow "I thought you knew Joseph better than that."

We could have asked for a dispensation head who didn't miraculously discover that any arrowhead, skeleton, metal plate, or scrap of papyrus that came his way was written by a great Nephite or Lamanite, or even by Abraham himself. And not just by Abraham himself, but by Joseph as well. It seems Joseph never laid eyes on an ancient artifact but that he found a way to weave it into his fictional accounts of the ancients, both in the Americas and the ancients in the Middle East. And, of course, modern scholars have now had to throw away the "hemispheric model" that underpinned accounts like Zelph's, and have had to advance theories like LGT which render Zelph impossible.

Wade, Joseph Smith was not a true prophet. Joseph Smith was a charlatan. He was a fraud. He set up a system of religion which is manmade, and which has you in a snare of the mind. Wade, Joseph Smith is not worth your time. He's not worth your life. Take back your life, take back your thoughts and your mind, not to mention your 10%, and let him go. You're better than Joseph Smith. You don't need to remain shackled to this virus of the mind. Let it go. Seriously.