(some!!!!) Mormon & exmormon men and the internet

Post by **_beastie** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:50 am

Since I got on the net about 11 years ago, I've participated on a couple of different types of boards. Several have been, like this one, Mormon and exmormon themed boards. But I've participated on others - a board for atheists, a board for political discussion, and another for people going through a divorce.

I have to say that I've noticed something that, so far, seems to be fairly unique to the LDS theme boards - men acting like horn-dogs and flirting suggestively with female posters, and/or just generally acting disrespectful. I'm sure some will think this means I'm a prude (which is far from the truth), but I think telling a woman she'd look good in a T-shirt is disrespectful. I mean, oddly enough, even on my divorce board men didn't act like some do around here. And it's been that way on every LDS theme board I've participated on so far. I have to say: WTF?

I didn't grow up LDS so I don't quite understand what it feels like to have your formative years so impacted by a sexually controlling ideology. So, despite the fact that I was LDS for over a decade, I likely to not fully understand the entire experience.

I actually enjoy talking about human sexuality, I find it extraordinarily interesting. But I learned that I just can't do it around Mormons or exmormons - it immediately starts to feel like a bunch of 12 year olds have entered the room. And men interpret it as some sort of come-on.

As a convert, I didn't grow up in a culture that constantly told its boys they had the "priesthood" and had the right to perform sacred ordinances their own mothers would never have the right to perform. And I didn't grow up in a culture that kept telling women their most important jobs were mothers, and to stay at home with the kids unless dire circumstances required otherwise. When I became LDS, I wondered if these things, maybe deep down, underneath all the patronizing "we love our women" comments, if these ideas really do encourage a certain amount of disrespect towards women.

Is it possible there's also a certain amount of underlying anger towards women? I do believe that many LDS men are sexually frustrated. They "save" themselves for marriage, and then, too often at marriage, have wives who are not as interested in sex as they are, for various reasons (maybe including being taught that sex was a NO NO all their lives).

Or is it that LDS believers really think that exmormons in general are "sinful", so probably the women are "loose", so it's ok to say provocative things to them????

Do you all participate on nonLDS boards? Do you agree that there is a difference in the male/female interactions?

Post by **_Moniker** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:01 am

We've talked about this before. There is a difference.

Talking about sexuality like an adult is something I've done on a few boards. Maybe the men were titillated? Could be? Yet, were gentlemanly enough to not say a word. Also they probably had partners in their past or current that were not saying anything much different than I was. So, what I said wasn't seen as shocking or scandalous --- just the norm, really.

Post by **_The Nehor** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:02 am

Compared to some boards I frequent, this place is nothing. Compared to others, it's worse. Really, I don't see a lot of flirting here and most of it is entirely in jest and a large fraction of it originates from females. Moniker has stated she has gotten a lot of PM's but I think much of this came from her blog which focussed quite a bit on sexuality. Reading that kind of some makes some men....stupid.

Post by **_Scottie** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:04 am

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but there is quite a bit of 12 year old humor coming from certain women posters of the board as well. It's playful, innocent flirting.

Most of the 12 year old humor is just that...humor. I don't know why women are so wound up about making a joke! Why does that immediately objectify women?

Post by **_Moniker** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:06 am

The Nehor wrote:Compared to some boards I frequent, this place is nothing. Compared to others, it's worse. Really, I don't see a lot of flirting here and most of it is entirely in jest and a large fraction of it originates from females. Moniker has stated she has gotten a lot of PM's but I think much of this came from her blog which focussed quite a bit on sexuality. Reading that kind of some makes some men....stupid.

I do see a lot of flirting - lots of it seems incredibly junior highschoolish to me, to be honest. It actually grosses me out, at times.

My blog didn't focus on sexuality -- it focused on whether or not I was a victim. :)

Post by **_Moniker** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:09 am

Scottie wrote:I'm not sure if you've noticed, but there is quite a bit of 12 year old humor coming from certain women posters of the board as well. It's playful, innocent flirting.

Most of the 12 year old humor is just that...humor. I don't know why women are so wound up about making a joke! Why does that immediately objectify women?

When there are threads where there is a topic of sexuality some men (you included) will make comments that they are loving the sex talk. Well, I just have to tell you that a man that gets turned on from seeing two women talk about sexuality (like adults) and then comments on it makes me think I just walked into my jr. highschool.

Sorry, it's the truth.

~Edited to add~
I'm not a prude either... I think some women do encourage some of the behavior seen on this website. I think it may be confusing for the men, also what a woman appreciates in the terms of "attention" or not.

Post by **_beastie** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:21 am

As I said, I didn't grow up LDS, so may be wrong in my guesses here. But from what I know from being LDS for 15 years is that sex was mainly referred to in terms of "don't do it" and "sacred for marriage". So maybe people coming from that environment aren't used to sexuality being openly discussed, and tend to view it as a titillation?

Nehor, you say some of the boards you participate on are worse than this one. What are the topics of those boards?

Scottie, you're right, that some of the flirtation comes from the women. It's not all the men.

I can't quite put my finger on what feels different on LDS boards when it comes to talk about sexuality and male/female interactions.. but something is different.

I will say one thing. It always creeps me out when men who are supposedly "worthy Mormons" come on to these boards and make sexualized comments to women. I'm not sure why that creeps me out - it's not just the hypocrisy. It's like they are doing something "dirty" - In other words, they view it as dirty. Kind of like Madonna/Whore complex. Are you the madonna or the whore?

Post by **_Jersey Girl** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:26 am

I can't quite put my finger on what feels different on LDS boards when it comes to talk about sexuality and male/female interactions.. but something is different.

It's condescending.

Post by **_Scottie** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:29 am

Moniker wrote:
Scottie wrote:I'm not sure if you've noticed, but there is quite a bit of 12 year old humor coming from certain women posters of the board as well. It's playful, innocent flirting.

Most of the 12 year old humor is just that...humor. I don't know why women are so wound up about making a joke! Why does that immediately objectify women?

When there are threads where there is a topic of sexuality some men (you included) will make comments that they are loving the sex talk. Well, I just have to tell you that a man that gets turned on from seeing two women talk about sexuality (like adults) and then comments on it makes me think I just walked into my jr. highschool.

Sorry, it's the truth.

So once again men are berated for acting like men. Note to women out there...we ARE men!!! We are not broken women!! Don't expect us to act like women. Don't get disgusted that we are acting like men. It's what we do.

What would happen if I were to walk into a room full of crying women who were "venting" and told them that they disgust me with their crying!! Why can't they act more like men?!?!? Men don't cry!!!

I'll tell you what would happen. The women would rip me to shreds for DARING to try and take away their womanhood!!

Yet, a woman has NOOO problem telling men to stop acting like men, and to act more like women...you know, don't get turned on by sex talk and don't make juvenile comments about the sex talk. After all, women don't do this!!

Well, guess what...WE ARE MEN!! WE GET TURNED ON!!! WE ALSO ACT JUVINIELLE FOR A LAUGH SOMETIMES!!

Why do you women revel in the challenge to rid us of everything that makes us men? Why the constant need to expect us to act like and turn us into women??

(Note: Sorry to all the men out there whom I have taken upon myself to stereotype men.)

Post by **_beastie** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:30 am

It's condescending.

DING DING DING

That's it!!!

I do think it's interesting that three women who did NOT grow up LDS sense something is "off".

Have you noticed this, Jersey Girl? Do you participate on other, nonLDS boards? Do you agree that the LDS theme boards have this particular sort of condescension going on?