Falsification: Still Waiting For A Serious, Rational Debate.

Post by **_antishock8** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:59 pm

Coggins, the facsimiles shown in the Book of Abraham are clearly mistranslated by Joseph Smith thus proving he is, indeed, full of s***.

Post by **_antishock8** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:17 am

Bumping for Coggins.

Post by **_Scottie** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:30 am

Thus far, I have seen nothing in this thread that apologists couldn't wave away with a re-definition of a word or two, or a "science is ALWAYS contradicting themselves!! One day it's 'there was no flood', the next it's 'oh yes, we know there was a flood'".

Crud, the Book of Abraham is billowing smoke from the smoking gun, yet apologists are able to conjure up the multiple theories...each more asinine than the rest.

That being said, I believe that a confirmed signed confession by Joseph Smith, confirmed by the current prophet, that he made it all up, complete with explanations on how he created the Book of Mormon would falsify Mormonism.

Post by **_Mercury** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:54 am

The church would never hold a position that could really be proven wrong. That's one reason why it can't be taken seriously.

So the kinderhook plates, PoGP and a handfull of other Prophetic Faux Pas are not falsifiable? I haven't read the thread so far but I hope there are better displays of intellect here.

Post by **_Scottie** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:04 am

Mercury wrote:
The church would never hold a position that could really be proven wrong. That's one reason why it can't be taken seriously.

So the kinderhook plates, PoGP and a handfull of other Prophetic Faux Pas are not falsifiable? I haven't read the thread so far but I hope there are better displays of intellect here.

No, they are not.

Nor is it falsifiable that Oral Roberts was visited by an 800 foot Jesus who told him to collect a million dollars or God would kill him.

As long as apologists can come up with SOME...ANY...kind of even remotely plausible scenario where it COULD have happened this way, it is still true.

Post by **_antishock8** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:46 pm

Scottie wrote:
Mercury wrote:
The church would never hold a position that could really be proven wrong. That's one reason why it can't be taken seriously.

So the kinderhook plates, PoGP and a handfull of other Prophetic Faux Pas are not falsifiable? I haven't read the thread so far but I hope there are better displays of intellect here.

No, they are not.

Nor is it falsifiable that Oral Roberts was visited by an 800 foot Jesus who told him to collect a million dollars or God would kill him.

As long as apologists can come up with SOME...ANY...kind of even remotely plausible scenario where it COULD have happened this way, it is still true.

Well. That's funny.

Post by **_beastie** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:59 pm

That being said, I believe that a confirmed signed confession by Joseph Smith, confirmed by the current prophet, that he made it all up, complete with explanations on how he created the Book of Mormon would falsify Mormonism.

No, even that wouldn't do it for True Believers.

Warren Jeffs made some sort of "confession" when he was first put in prison - said he wasn't really a prophet and had engaged in inappropriate sexual activity with a sister and daughter.

Later, he retracted it.

I don't think the confession affected his followers in the least. They found ways to rationalize it.

Look at the JWs for another example. A main part of their theology was predicting Jesus' second coming....and they did so... incorrectly, time after time. You'd think any sensible person would lose faith after that. But look how many continued to believe.

So I think the real question isn't just what would falsify the church, but what would falsify the church for True Believers. The answer is nothing.

Post by **_antishock8** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:33 pm

Coggins, the facsimiles shown in the Book of Abraham are clearly mistranslated by Joseph Smith thus proving he is, indeed, full of s***.

Post by **_Mercury** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:42 pm

antishock8 wrote:Coggins, the facsimiles shown in the Book of Abraham are clearly mistranslated by Joseph Smith thus proving he is, indeed, full of s***.

Post by **_Jason Bourne** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:48 pm

1 Is the Book of Abraham what it is claimed to be? Is it a direct translation of the papyri Joseph Smith had?

2 Was the behavior of the person who claimed all the supernatural events that surround the restoration and founding of the LDS Church of such a nature that we can trust his unfalsifiable claims?

3 Is the Book of Mormon actual history of a people the inhabited some, part or all of North and South America?

4 Did Joseph Smith Lie to his wife about polygamy as well as to many of his trusting followers?

5 Did Brigham Young teach that Adam is our God? If he did and it is now declared as false doctrine what does that mean about how well we can trust Brigham's other teachings?