(some!!!!) Mormon & exmormon men and the internet

[_Moniker]

I know one time I posted some photos as a response to a post by moniker but she told me right away it embarrassed her and I took them down and said I was sorry. I meant it to be funny but I guess it wasn't taken that way.

You were fine, tumult. :)

I knew you were doing it as a joke and I didn't think your intentions were to embarrass me or to make me feel bad. I never thought that for one moment! I told you how it did make me feel though and you were such a gentleman to reply as you did and to remove it. I'm sorry if that made you feel as if I thought poorly of you, or your intentions, for I certainly did not.

I KNOW some men have no intention of embarrassing or hurting women -- and you're certainly one of those. :)

[_truth dancer]

[quote="tumult"]I think that subconciously and consciously men want to spread there genes. I think that human's adapt to new enviornments and men realize that the internet is just like a bar and for them even safer - it can be like anonymous sex. In the last forty years we have gone from a sexualized society to a pornofied one. Putting the image of a curvey female on a retina will get a response. Men are men. Men are also homo-sapiens and also primates. During the history of man, men have not been teased like they have been in the last fifty years with new technology. I think we are in a phase that needs to be reevaluated repeatedly as technology creates new ways of flirting.

regarding the LDS church - I have very mixed emotions regarding what they say. I only know from my experience that I needed to be in a loving environment when taught about sex. I found porn in my home as a child and experienced a huge rush (sexual abuse) and did everything I could to repeat that rush. It turned into a disease as I got older the rest is a tragic story. That's what happens when you let people like Larry Flynt teach you things. I think all men have their own story and baggage as to why they do things.
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You are very wise Tumult! :-)

~dancer~

[_Yoda]

Dear Members of my Male Harem,

Please accept my sincere apologies for encouraging, and continuing to bring out your juvenile sexual tendencies.

Now let's have a party in the Goddess Suite and do it all over again.

;)

Sincerely,

Your Ultimate Goddess of Worship and Lust,

Liz

P.S...Scottie....baby...don't you dare change. ;)

[_Scottie]

Dear Members of my Male Harem,

Please accept my sincere apologies for encouraging, and continuing to bring out your juvenile sexual tendencies.

Now let's have a party in the Goddess Suite and do it all over again.

;)

Sincerely,

Your Ultimate Goddess of Worship and Lust,

Liz

P.S...Scottie....baby...don't you dare change. ;)

Oh how I love you, Liz!! :)

[_harmony]

To quote Danny Glover: I'm getting too old for this s**t.

Seriously.

When I see flirting, sexualized comments, etc., my first reaction is boredom and my second reaction is frustration. And it really pisses me off when I see people like some of our apologists behaving disrespectfully towards the women here. I realize they think this is a slimepit, but that has no bearing on their responsibility to behave as a Latter-day Saint, instead of a heathen without boundaries. It's embarrassing, it's freakin' embarrassing! Geez... GROW UP! Live up to your priesthood!

Good grief!

[_William Schryver]

What a revealing thread this has been! Wow!

I never want to hear another exmormon woman, or nonmormon woman for that matter, assert that Mormon women have an inordinate incidence of sexual hangups. While I have no doubt that there are Mormon women who have real problems in that respect, the women who have been closest to me in life, and about whom I have been in a position to know their attitudes towards such things, have NOT suffered from anything like the issues I have observed in several women here. My mother hasn't been the best judge of men in her life, but she never suffered from sex hangups, and she didn't pass any on to her children. My wife, despite being a sexually-ignorant virgin when we were married (just like me) has never suffered from sex hangups. And my newlywed daughter, if the constant grin on her and her husband's faces is any indication, also does not suffer from sex hangups.

I also distinctly recall the conversation my wife and I had with the stake president the night before our wedding. I remember the blush on my wife's cheeks as he, in no uncertain terms, said (to the best of my recollection):

"I know you've both refrained from yielding to your sexual desires up to this point. But when you walk off those temple grounds tomorrow, that's all going to change. From then on I want to encourage you to yield to those desires without reservation. (Looking at my wife) Give yourself fully to your husband, without shame and without any feelings that you're doing something 'dirty.' It is the most beautiful and satisfying thing you will do together. There is nothing that will serve to bond the two of you together more strongly through a long and successful marriage than a healthy and frequently-pursued sexual relationship. (Looking at me) You do whatever it takes to make her sexual fulfillment one of the highest priorities of your relationship. No 'slam, bam, thank you ma'am' stuff. You learn how to be a consummate and caring lover and it will return greater dividends than you can ever imagine."

Anyway, he went on for several minutes along these lines. It was one of the most eloquent articulations of the importance of healthy sexuality that I have ever heard. I remember being equal parts amazed and grateful when we left his house that night. I turned to my wife as we were driving down the street, and we just both busted out laughing. Then we made a solemn vow to each other that that was one piece of counsel we would always abide by. And we have.
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Anyway, beastlie and others have made some pretty remarkable charges of perfidious behavior. I think she has greatly overstated her case, and I would challenge her to provide some documentation, in the form of specific posts, of the kind of outrageous behavior she has observed here and which she finds so abhorrent. It's one thing to ACT like something perfidious has taken place, and another thing altogether to demonstrate it. Let's see her demonstrate it to the satisfaction of those who participate here.
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Now, I want to move on to Liz's comment:

Dear Members of my Male Harem,

Please accept my sincere apologies for encouraging, and continuing to bring out your juvenile sexual tendencies.

Now let's have a party in the Goddess Suite and do it all over again.

That's it! The Goddess Suite! That's what I was talking about. Just the sound of it rolling off the tongue gives me goosebumps. (Is that the kind of thing that makes beastlie and Moniker get so uptight?) LOL.

Anyway, Liz, I'm sorely hurt that you have not invited me into the Goddess Suite. I'm telling you, you let me in just once and you'll conclude that, henceforth, three or more would be a crowd!

(OK, dear beastlie, I just committed online flirting with Liz. And in a moment, my wife will review what I have written and then look over my shoulder as I press the "Submit" button to post this. If the worst you can come up with in the way of "documentation" of my depravity is quoting what I just said to Liz -- or something similar to it -- then I submit, in all seriousness, that this discussion isn't about Mormon (or exmormon) men and their twisted sense of sexual propriety, but rather about you and your own personal hangups and twisted desire to condemn all things Mormon without good cause.)
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Now to harmony's precious remarks:

When I see flirting, sexualized comments, etc., my first reaction is boredom and my second reaction is frustration.

Well, when I see flirting, sexualized comments, etc., my first reaction is: I wonder what she looks like in person? And my second reaction is: thank goodness for Androgel. ;-)

And it really pisses me off when I see people like some of our apologists behaving disrespectfully towards the women here. I realize they think this is a slimepit, but that has no bearing on their responsibility to behave as a Latter-day Saint, instead of a heathen without boundaries. It's embarrassing, it's freakin' embarrassing! Geez... GROW UP! Live up to your priesthood!

Good grief!

Good grief is right!

"A heathen without boundaries." That's hilarious. I mean it's really, really funny. It is only topped by "Live up to your priesthood!"

What in the hell are you talking about?

Is this the same priesthood you so often disparage? The one that comes from the polygamist and alleged pedophiliac Joseph Smith -- the prophet you love to hate? The priesthood you feign to sustain when you are interviewed for a temple recommend?

I thought so.

[_beastie]

LDS people, in genereal, are among the red neckiest people in the world. From potluck (popularity of Jell-O and Cream of Whatever Concoction) to all the stupid s*** they wear to church on Sundays (and I'm talkin' K-Mart shirts, brown nylon slacks, and clip-on ties), they're ill-mannered in general. They lack culture and appropriate boundaries found throughout polite society. Sometimes they're exposed to culture because of their missions, but they think they're better than that culture because of their religious ideology. You take stupid uncultured assholes and tell them they're better than everyone... Well, they just don't know how to act.

So. Combine that with men are being told that they're going to be gods, that they have authority over their women, that they have more power in their pinky finger than the President. Does it surprise anyone that LDS and ex-LDS men are objectify women like s***? 12 year-old boys are being told they're going to rule over their own planets, and does it really surprise anyone that these boys turn into men with no sense of propriety? That s*** you saw bein' rounded up in El Dorado was NOT far from what would be going down with LDS guys if they hadn't had their pee-pees smacked down. Dudes are dirty. Men are dogs. Throw Mormonism on top that and it's like throwing moonshine on a bondfire. The damn rednecks start a whoopin' and a hollerin'.

Anyway, you take their restrictions on what's a sin and what isn't, because they're such social retards they just run wild. Like a bull in a candy shop! <-Ha. That's some serious metaphor-mixing. You see that? That was awesome.

When Mormon and ex-Mormon women respond they a) like the attention and b) are experiencing social retardation, too. It's kind of like when some silly skank-ho and her ho friend ho it up in front of a bar or camera. Everyone goes crazy. They also happen to be largely in their 20's. They dudes going crazy have popped collars and sideways caps. The ho's have spray-on tans and bleached hair. They're young. They get that out of their system. The ex-Mo's generally haven't had that Spring Break experience, and don't understand why it's ridiculous to ho it up on a message board, or at 30-something parties, or... Well, you get the point.

I’ve thought more about your post, antishock, and have concluded you’ve largely nailed it. I would probably change a few words here and there, and don’t think that red-neck is quite the correct adjective. My boyfriend, a BIC, and I discussed the idea this afternoon. (He’s definitely noticed the same phenomenon, and even stated that the people on his favorite radio show, the notorious “Jay Thomas Show” behave in a more seemly fashion than folks on Mormon internet boards do.) We agree that “red-neck” isn’t quite right. Of course, we live in the south, and red-neck means something very specific around here. And, of course, whenever one makes generalizations, one should remain aware that there will be plenty of people who don’t fit the generalization. Aside from not knowing exactly what term to use, I think your general idea may be correct, and it may be why those of us not born within the culture, or from a mixed cultural background, may be more prone to recognize it.

I didn’t start this thread really thinking specific posters were going to amend their ways, and, in fact, the ones who offered to weren’t the ones I had in mind in the first place. I mainly wanted to find out if others shared this observation. They do, and that’s all I needed to know.

And no, I’m not going to name names on this board. I already offered a specific example from the Z board, as well as what I experienced on the early email group, and I think these examples are pretty clear.

[Guest]

Will, about the goddess suite and my supposed sexual hangups or being uptight. The goddess suite bores the hell out of me.

I don't role play on the internet and I certainly don't get turned on by others that do so. Here's a lil clue for you Will -- I don't do sex with a giggle snort, or in a way that is like a teen prepubscent fantasy. You see, Will, I'm quite content with my sexuality and my experience and don't have to pretend that I can live some marvelous sex life on the internet. I live my sex life in the real world.

That you get excited about it makes me think you haven't. :)

[_antishock8]

Yeah, I live in the South, too. NC to be specific, and the red necks here are very different from the red necks up in Washington state where I was born and raised. By 'red neck' I really just mean ill-mannered, non-cultured, narrow-minded-ish, or some such variation. You're right that no one really ever fits a specific stereotype, but sometimes stereotypes are useful to get a general idea across.

My family came from strong red necky roots. Both my parents came from rural Washington state, as did my extended family. I was also raised in a ward that was upper-poor to middle class, circa 70's to 80's in Spokane. My dad bought and renovated houses in blighted neighborhoods, and thus was a sort of slum lord to many of Spokane's welfare class. I now live in a part of NC rife with red neckery, military types, Dirty South types, Mexican immigrants, and everything in between. It's all very open-minded, tolerant, and diverse. I'm pretty confident I have a thourough understanding of the uncultured, myself included.

*caveat* There are great Southerners, Mexicans, Blacks, Whites, Military types, Mormons, Washingtonians, Americans, etc... You can possess strong geographic characteristcs and still be respectable. I've just found, in my own experience, that Mormons are pretty much what I described them to be. They're less Mitt Romney and more Boyd K. Packer.

[_beastie]

then I submit, in all seriousness, that this discussion isn't about Mormon (or exmormon) men and their twisted sense of sexual propriety, but rather about you and your own personal hangups and twisted desire to condemn all things Mormon without good cause.)

Here's the thing, will. It's been a while since I've been a Mormon, but I'm pretty sure the Mormon church didn't condone acting in flirtatious, suggestive manners with women other than your wife. In fact, I seem to remember them stressing even staying away from the appearance of "evil".

Or is that another teaching that has changed?