Jason Bourne wrote:1 Is the Book of Abraham what it is claimed to be? Is it a direct translation of the papyri Joseph Smith had?
2 Was the behavior of the person who claimed all the supernatural events that surround the restoration and founding of the LDS Church of such a nature that we can trust his unfalsifiable claims?
3 Is the Book of Mormon actual history of a people the inhabited some, part or all of North and South America?
4 Did Joseph Smith Lie to his wife about polygamy as well as to many of his trusting followers?
5 Did Brigham Young teach that Adam is our God? If he did and it is now declared as false doctrine what does that mean about how well we can trust Brigham's other teachings?
I like this list. It only takes one to knock the rest down, except for #5. that borders on trivia.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Jason Bourne wrote:1 Is the Book of Abraham what it is claimed to be? Is it a direct translation of the papyri Joseph Smith had?
2 Was the behavior of the person who claimed all the supernatural events that surround the restoration and founding of the LDS Church of such a nature that we can trust his unfalsifiable claims?
3 Is the Book of Mormon actual history of a people the inhabited some, part or all of North and South America?
4 Did Joseph Smith Lie to his wife about polygamy as well as to many of his trusting followers?
5 Did Brigham Young teach that Adam is our God? If he did and it is now declared as false doctrine what does that mean about how well we can trust Brigham's other teachings?
I like this list. It only takes one to knock the rest down, except for #5. that borders on trivia.
The reason I put number 5 in is this. If the prophet of God was confused about who God is-I mean it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing for the prophet to know-then how can we trust that he is really speaking for God in other things? Why trust the prophet when a successor can over turn his teachings? This I think is a critical issue.
As I posted in the other thread, these are 5 claims made by the CoJCoLdS that could be tested and confirmed or falsified with observable and repeatable data:
1. LDS Priesthood holders have the power to heal illnesses beyond the capability of medical science, and with a greater success rate than a placebo.
2. LDS Seers have the ability to render a language unknown to them into a language that is known by them.
3. LDS Apostles and Prophets receive direction from an omnipotent being with advanced knowledge of all scientific and ethical principles that will ever be known.
4. Sometime between 3,000 and 2,000 BC (CES Old Testament manual says 2344 BC), a catastrophic flood covered the entire Earth and destroyed all animal and human life except for 8 humans and a set of breeding animals that were preserved in a floating ark.
5. All human beings currently alive today trace their ancestry to two (and only two) humans who began having children around 4,000 BC.
I think the two issues most worthy of discussion are Adam's Fall (and it's introduction of mortality), and Noah's Worldwide Catastrophic Flood, since these claims are made consistently and repeatedly in the Church (including the quadra-annual Sunday School Lessons in Church). There have never been any other theories acknowledged in any official statement or publication, and the Apostles and Prophets have repeatedly clarified the scope and reality of these events.
These stories have been taught as literal history without exception for the last 178 years, and the long arm of science now stretches to the point of being able to illuminate their feasibility.
cinepro wrote:I think the two issues most worthy of discussion are Adam's Fall (and it's introduction of mortality), and Noah's Worldwide Catastrophic Flood, since these claims are made consistently and repeatedly in the Church (including the quadra-annual Sunday School Lessons in Church). There have never been any other theories acknowledged in any official statement or publication, and the Apostles and Prophets have repeatedly clarified the scope and reality of these events.
These stories have been taught as literal history without exception for the last 178 years, and the long arm of science now stretches to the point of being able to illuminate their feasibility.
Well, Coggins? These are two points made in a respectful, congenial manner. They have been empirically proven to be false. The rejoinder is yours...
cinepro wrote:I think the two issues most worthy of discussion are Adam's Fall (and it's introduction of mortality), and Noah's Worldwide Catastrophic Flood, since these claims are made consistently and repeatedly in the Church (including the quadra-annual Sunday School Lessons in Church). There have never been any other theories acknowledged in any official statement or publication, and the Apostles and Prophets have repeatedly clarified the scope and reality of these events.
These stories have been taught as literal history without exception for the last 178 years, and the long arm of science now stretches to the point of being able to illuminate their feasibility.
Well, Coggins? These are two points made in a respectful, congenial manner. They have been empirically proven to be false. The rejoinder is yours...