Joseph Smith and Warren Jeffs

[_Roger Morrison]

Another "Great one!" TD...

Hmmm, "God works in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform." ;-) Like, "God is behind everything! He wants this going down!" ???

The long sleeves and dresses hiding garments, never occured to me, LOL I wonder if that connection will be made by many Mos? The evolution of Gs alone reveals the expediency that really does make LDS wisdom the better part of Prophetic valor... Oh, too temple rites and covenants conforming to Present-day Saints Standards.

"If I recall correctly"??? Warm regards, Roger

[_truth dancer]

Hey Coca Cola... welcome to the board!

Excellent post TD about the similarities between Joseph Smith and Warren Jeffs!

Some dissimilarities - perhaps due to circumstances:

Joseph Smith was already the guy at the top of the power structure - whereas Warren had to skillfully manuever himself into power over other rivals, making him, perhaps, more dangerous.

Joseph was charismatic - Warren seems to have very little charm or charisma.

While both seem misogynistic - Warren seems to have taken his to extremely cruel depths - you've heard the story about his twisting his wife's braid in front of young men until she was screaming and then telling the boys "This is how obedient your wives should be to you."

Joseph seemed more fun loving - Warren sadistically cruel - I.e., killing all the dogs in community, torturing animals to death in front of small children (which is a common practicing in "mind control").

Warren's sexual abuse extended to boys - Joseph confined his to "marriages" to young girls.

Ugly comparisons.

Thanks for this comment. I actually had not heard of the killing dogs and torturing animals stuff. Seriously sick for sure. I also didn't know WJ sexually abused boys. Yeah, those are significant differences.

The few interviews I have heard from the followers of WJ claim that he has a way of getting people to feel loved and completely willing to follow him. They describe almost as a magical quality to his personality that is warm and comforting. When I hear him talk on television I feel nauseated but his followers seem to feel differently. But I think you are probably right that Joseph Smith was outgoing, more fun loving, and extroverted.

:-)

~dancer~

[_Inconceivable]

I think the one disimilarity we can all agree upon is that Warren Jeffs isn't finally dead yet.

We are told (if we're willing to believe it) that we know a tree by it's fruits.

Fair enough.

My determination is that Jeffs fruit didn't fall too far from Joseph's fruit. How different could they be? They're certainly from the same costic tree.

[_Inconceivable]

Hey Rock...

Yes, Joesph Smith was a prophet and Warren Jeffs is obsiously not.

I'm not sure if you are joking or not. Hmmm...

If not, what would be obvious about Joseph Smith being a prophet?

Few people in the world see anything holy about Joseph Smith... can't be too obvious. If anything I would suggest most folks would say it is obvious Joseph Smith was, well, so NOT a prophet. ;-)

~dancer~

Not joking, you should know that by now. I was thinking you were joking because your post is not accurate. If I'm not mistaken it was proven in a court of law that Joseph Smith was not a polygamist. I also figured that you made such a long post because you really didn't want anyone to respond to each issue you brought forward. I'm not a Utah Mormon as you know, so I do not follow the added and changed history that is given by that church, I go by the history as it happened unchanged.

Rockhead,

The entire Smith clan were all liars - Joseph, Emma, Joseph III, Lucy Mack, Hyrum.. Any church that originated with Smith is corrupt. It's remarkable that every single foundational tenent that Smith "revealed" has a hole in it. Keep studying the history. It will make you sick, it will anger you, and then you will have to decide whether you support the pirate or are willing to stop the madness.

He taught and justified Mormon adultery. Joseph Smith is the FOUNDER of the RLDS, LDS and FLDS churches. He is the leader of each of them. Each testify of his calling.

[_Scottie]

The entire Smith clan were all liars - Joseph, Emma, Joseph III, Lucy Mack, Hyrum.. Any church that originated with Smith is corrupt. It's remarkable that every single foundational tenent that Smith "revealed" has a hole in it. Keep studying the history. It will make you sick, it will anger you, and then you will have to decide whether you support the pirate or are willing to stop the madness.

He taught and justified Mormon adultery. Joseph Smith is the FOUNDER of the RLDS, LDS and FLDS churches. He is the leader of each of them. Each testify of his calling.

Emma was a liar? I had never heard this before. What did she lie about?

[_harmony]

The entire Smith clan were all liars - Joseph, Emma, Joseph III, Lucy Mack, Hyrum.. Any church that originated with Smith is corrupt. It's remarkable that every single foundational tenent that Smith "revealed" has a hole in it. Keep studying the history. It will make you sick, it will anger you, and then you will have to decide whether you support the pirate or are willing to stop the madness.

He taught and justified Mormon adultery. Joseph Smith is the FOUNDER of the RLDS, LDS and FLDS churches. He is the leader of each of them. Each testify of his calling.

Emma was a liar? I had never heard this before. What did she lie about?

She said Joseph never had other wives. She denied he was polygamous 'til the day she died, If I recall correctly.

[_Scottie]

The entire Smith clan were all liars - Joseph, Emma, Joseph III, Lucy Mack, Hyrum.. Any church that originated with Smith is corrupt. It's remarkable that every single foundational tenent that Smith "revealed" has a hole in it. Keep studying the history. It will make you sick, it will anger you, and then you will have to decide whether you support the pirate or are willing to stop the madness.

He taught and justified Mormon adultery. Joseph Smith is the FOUNDER of the RLDS, LDS and FLDS churches. He is the leader of each of them. Each testify of his calling.

Emma was a liar? I had never heard this before. What did she lie about?

She said Joseph never had other wives. She denied he was polygamous 'til the day she died, If I recall correctly.

Well, telling a lie doesn't make one a liar.

Joseph Smith seemed to be a habitual liar. Although Emma may have told some lies, I didn't think she was a liar.

[_the road to hana]

What is the difference between Joseph Smith and Warren Jeffs? Are there any?

I give Joseph Smith points for being original (even if he stole ideas from this place and that). Warren Jeffs just copied the con.

And last I heard, Warren Jeffs had admitted to being a false prophet. I don't know that it seems to make a lot of difference among his followers, but he did say it, something Joseph Smith apparently never did.

[_RockHeaded]

If Joseph Smith was a liar, and if his whole family were liars, why did so many people believe that Joseph had the gold plates? Common sense will tell you that if someone is a habitual liar people are not going to follow along with what they say. The whole town believed Joseph had the plates, it wasn't just a few. The obvious conclusion is either they lived in a town of idiots or the Smiths were honest.

If one does an honest study, not accepting writers bias as absolute but look at the original texts one will find a different story than is believed by many people. It is unfortunate the people accept a history that keeps changing. If you don't see that the Utah Church keeps changing history you need to watch the movie they show in their welcome center for their temples. Not sure if the same movies are shown at every one of them, but the one here show's Joseph Smith ordaining Brigham Young to be the next prophet. This never happened, anyone who knows the history knows this.

RockHeaded

[_Canucklehead]

The one that has succumbed is now flourishing with wealth and riches and power...all tools of Satan. The one that has held fast to the original restoration is mocked, persecuted and driven out...all the things that the enemies of God do to the One True Church.

That observation is quite profound, Scottie.

Agreed.