(some!!!!) Mormon & exmormon men and the internet

[_beastie]

I discussed this with my boyfriend, as well - and, by the way, let me brag about him for a moment. Back on that original email group when there was, on occasion, inappropriate and demeaning banter at times, my boyfriend was definitely one of the good guys. In fact, the moment when I first starting falling for this guy was when some arsehole showed up and started talking about having sex with desperate 'special interest' girls (for moniker, those are women who are older than 27 and not married, which in the LDS world, makes them desperate, and everyone suspects overweight and/or ugly). My boyfriend (not boyfriend at the time) just let that guy have it with both barrels. He told him he was a disgusting human being who was taking advantage of and hurting women who probably hoped to have a real relationship with him, and he was laughing behind their backs. I will never forget how he (my boyfriend) signed off, saying "I do not like you, sir."

Damn, my heart melted. It made me tear up. He was willing to say the uncomfortable thing and refused to laugh it off.
The guy actually did back down after that - but, of course, it was equally likely that he'd act up even more. So yeah, it is hard to figure out what to say sometimes, and sometimes you think the best thing is to ignore it so they dry up from lack of attention - but we've figured out that doesn't work with real life bullies, so it probably doesn't work with online bullies, either. But I do know it's hard to figure out how to handle it at times.

Anyway, I got diverted on bragging about my boyfriend (who is still, in my opinion, a knight in shining armor). He thinks a lot of this has to do with sexual frustration. He remembers back in the day when he was LDS and in a bad marriage - any little thing could trigger arousal, practically a strong breeze. Or a bra commercial. (that's sad) Trinity mentioned this above, too - that often one person leaving the church triggers marital/sexual problems, and lots of frustration. I'm sure that's not always the case, but I think it is a factor.

[_Scottie]

Scottie, I accept you were joking. Yet, let me ask you this: If your daughter asked you if all the ex-Mos were promiscuous and addicted to drugs would you reply "Well, you are, aren't you?"

Perhaps I need to take a good look at myself, because honestly, yes, I WOULD say this to my daughter in a joking sense. Well, except that she is 4 and it wouldn't make sense to her...

That is just my sense of humor. To turn the impossible around and make it as if it were a normal, everyday occurrence. I make those kinds of jokes ALL the time on this board.

Like I said, I would have made the exact same joke to any other poster on this board. I've made similar jokes to other posters. In my experience, most people absolutely know I'm joking and laugh with me.

I realize that the timing was TERRIBLE for that joke, and there was no way I could know what you were going through personally.

[_beastie]

I ACCEPT that a lot of it was my fault. I reply with wit 'cause I don't know how else to reply. That didn't discourage the behavior. I do try to play nice and then feel guilty for telling someone that they hurt me 'cause I don't want to make them feel bad. Especially if I know they didn't intend to.

I did the exact same thing, moniker. And yeah, it doesn't discourage the behavior.

In our mutual defenses, we had just left abusive, controlling spouses. Abuse totally erodes your sense of self, and your ability to "hear" your own voice in the first place. And it especially erodes your willingness to recognize your own boundaries and stand up for them in a firm, even unpleasant, way. So add that to the mix of LDS 'issues'... and it can be dynamite.

[Guest]

Scottie, I accept you were joking. Yet, let me ask you this: If your daughter asked you if all the ex-Mos were promiscuous and addicted to drugs would you reply "Well, you are, aren't you?"

Perhaps I need to take a good look at myself, because honestly, yes, I WOULD say this to my daughter in a joking sense. Well, except that she is 4 and it wouldn't make sense to her...

That is just my sense of humor. To turn the impossible around and make it as if it were a normal, everyday occurrence. I make those kinds of jokes ALL the time on this board.

Like I said, I would have made the exact same joke to any other poster on this board. I've made similar jokes to other posters. In my experience, most people absolutely know I'm joking and laugh with me.

I realize that the timing was TERRIBLE for that joke, and there was no way I could know what you were going through personally.

It's quite possible I'm hypersensitive at this point..I recognize I'm doing a lot of hypervigilance at this point -- scared of being hurt, essentially -- looking for danger. I had so much coming in all at once that it was sort of difficult for me to process it.

Scottie, I NEVER thought that you thought poorly of me. I just think saying things like that may egg on other posters in a sense. Does that make sense?

And I need to say something about Bond -- he quite frankly probably encourages a lot of the behavior toward me seen by other posters. And he TOO I know means NOTHING by his remarks and jokes toward me. I KNOW this! Yet, when others see it they think it's a green light sort of thing. I ignore Bond and his flirts most of the time (he'll vouch!) and yet, others may see him doing it and think that it's open season on me.

A LOT of this is my fault. I thought about what marg said today -- and she was right. I did need to change some things. I just need to tell people when I need them to stop doing something. Sorry for being the board mental case right now. :)

Even the men that approached me in PMs -- I wasn't rude to them. I look back and recognize my inability or unwillingness to hurt someone else was actually encouraging this behavior -- and I RECOGNIZE that it can be confusing for the men. I understand that!

[_Scottie]

So add that to the mix of LDS 'issues'... and it can be dynamite.

I'm still not entirely convinced this is an LDS/exLDS issue.

The thread seemed to start out that way, but it was quickly dwindled down to a couple of posters here. By your own admission, the VAST majority of male posters here are not in this category.

So, to say that 2 or 3 posters act this way, and they happen to be LDS/exLDS, doesn't seem to fit the theory that LDS/exLDS posters are the problem.

It seems more likely that these individuals are the problem. It has nothing to do with their beliefs/ex-beliefs.

[_Moniker]

I ACCEPT that a lot of it was my fault. I reply with wit 'cause I don't know how else to reply. That didn't discourage the behavior. I do try to play nice and then feel guilty for telling someone that they hurt me 'cause I don't want to make them feel bad. Especially if I know they didn't intend to.

I did the exact same thing, moniker. And yeah, it doesn't discourage the behavior.

In our mutual defenses, we had just left abusive, controlling spouses. Abuse totally erodes your sense of self, and your ability to "hear" your own voice in the first place. And it especially erodes your willingness to recognize your own boundaries and stand up for them in a firm, even unpleasant, way. So add that to the mix of LDS 'issues'... and it can be dynamite.

I'm so glad you understand!!!!

[_Moniker]

So add that to the mix of LDS 'issues'... and it can be dynamite.

I'm still not entirely convinced this is an LDS/exLDS issue.

The thread seemed to start out that way, but it was quickly dwindled down to a couple of posters here. By your own admission, the VAST majority of male posters here are not in this category.

So, to say that 2 or 3 posters act this way, and they happen to be LDS/exLDS, doesn't seem to fit the theory that LDS/exLDS posters are the problem.

It seems more likely that these individuals are the problem. It has nothing to do with their beliefs/ex-beliefs.

I think it may just be a few posters. They seem to stand out. Yet, it appears to be their beliefs that they took from the Church that they justify their behavior. Coggins for instance throws up my life vs. the LDS life -- that's perfectly apparent what he is doing.

[_beastie]

I'm still not entirely convinced this is an LDS/exLDS issue.

The thread seemed to start out that way, but it was quickly dwindled down to a couple of posters here. By your own admission, the VAST majority of male posters here are not in this category.

So, to say that 2 or 3 posters act this way, and they happen to be LDS/exLDS, doesn't seem to fit the theory that LDS/exLDS posters are the problem.

It seems more likely that these individuals are the problem. It has nothing to do with their beliefs/ex-beliefs.

That may be. I really don't know. But I really haven't seen this type of behavior on the other types of board I've been on, in the past. But those boards were also more heavily moderated. So there are complicating factors.

I do think that being Mormons and exmormons creates a sense of familiarity that may not exist, as readily, on other boards. That familiarity may open the door to this type of behavior.

But really - can being taught, your entire life, that being male entitles you to rights and privileges - even as a youth - that women can never have - NOT affect the way you view women??

[_beastie]

I'm so glad you understand!!!!

I do understand. Never doubt that. School of hard knocks and all that. ;)

[_Scottie]

But really - can being taught, your entire life, that being male entitles you to rights and privileges - even as a youth - that women can never have - NOT affect the way you view women??

I don't know. I was taught all kinds of horrible stereotypes that I believe I have overcome.

I don't hate gays. In fact, I am a strong supporter of gay rights even though I was raised in a severely homophobic church and household.
I don't hate those of other ethnic backgrounds. (Same as above)
I don't think America is #1, let alone in the top 25 best countries in the world.
I don't think women belong barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

Although, I will admit that I'm in the minority here. Most people refuse to look at ideals that they were raised with.