Hey Mormon guys and gals! - Nugget #1 from the CHI:

[_Mercury]

Surgical Sterilization (Including Vasectomy):

The Church strongly discourages surgical sterilization as an elective form of birth control. It
should be considered only if (1) medical conditions seriously jeopardize life or health or (2)
birth defects or serious trauma have rendered a person mentally incompetent and not
responsible for his or her actions. Such conditions must be determined by competent medical
judgment and in accordance with law. Even then, the persons responsible for this decision
should consult with each other and with their bishop and should receive divine confirmation of
their decision through prayer.


Heres a freebie -

Surrogate Motherhood:

Surrogate motherhood is strongly discouraged.

[_Scottie]

WTF???

[_sunstoned]

Consult with their bishop about the big V? Does it seem a little over the top that the church wants this level of control over members lives?

[_Mercury]

Consult with their bishop about the big V? Does it seem a little over the top that the church wants this level of control over members lives?

notice that both vasectomies and tube tying are outlined

[_bcspace]

Considering the Church's stance on birth control......

Birth Control

It is the privilege of married couples who are able to bear children to provide mortal bodies for
the spirit children of God, whom they are then responsible to nurture and rear. The decision as
to how many children to have and when to have them is extremely intimate and private and
should be left between the couple and the Lord. Church members should not judge one another
in this matter.

Married couples also should understand that sexual relations within marriage are divinely
approved not only for the purpose of procreation, but also as a means of expressing love and
strengthening emotional and spiritual bonds between husband and wife.

.....I'd say Merc is trying to manufacture some shock value (either that or more lazy research on his part) by implying the statement means something it does not.

[_Mercury]

Considering the Church's stance on birth control......

Birth Control

It is the privilege of married couples who are able to bear children to provide mortal bodies for
the spirit children of God, whom they are then responsible to nurture and rear. The decision as
to how many children to have and when to have them is extremely intimate and private and
should be left between the couple and the Lord. Church members should not judge one another
in this matter.

Married couples also should understand that sexual relations within marriage are divinely
approved not only for the purpose of procreation, but also as a means of expressing love and
strengthening emotional and spiritual bonds between husband and wife.

.....I'd say Merc is trying to manufacture some shock value (either that or more lazy research on his part) by implying the statement means something it does not.

My body is my own and my wifes body is my wifes. The church should not have an opinion on vasectomies or TL's

[Guest]

.....I'd say Merc is trying to manufacture some shock value (either that or more lazy research on his part) by implying the statement means something it does not.

My body is my own and my wifes body is my wifes. The church should not have an opinion on vasectomies or TL's

Considering the two statements together, what do you think that opinion is?

[_skippy the dead]

Considering the Church's stance on birth control......

Birth Control

It is the privilege of married couples who are able to bear children to provide mortal bodies for
the spirit children of God, whom they are then responsible to nurture and rear. The decision as
to how many children to have and when to have them is extremely intimate and private and
should be left between the couple and the Lord. Church members should not judge one another
in this matter.

Married couples also should understand that sexual relations within marriage are divinely
approved not only for the purpose of procreation, but also as a means of expressing love and
strengthening emotional and spiritual bonds between husband and wife.

.....I'd say Merc is trying to manufacture some shock value (either that or more lazy research on his part) by implying the statement means something it does not.

I think there's a distinct difference between the treatment of birth control and surgical sterilization. For regular birth control, the church has decided that it's up to the couple. For the surgical option, the church has laid down some strong language:

The Church strongly discourages surgical sterilization as an elective form of birth control. It
should be considered only if (1) medical conditions seriously jeopardize life or health or (2)
birth defects or serious trauma have rendered a person mentally incompetent and not
responsible for his or her actions. Such conditions must be determined by competent medical
judgment and in accordance with law. Even then, the persons responsible for this decision
should consult with each other and with their bishop and should receive divine confirmation of
their decision through prayer.

See - "strongly discourages surgical sterilization as an elective form of birth control"; "should consult . . . with their bishop and should receive divine confirmation of their decision through prayer." Compare that to the birth control language. Big difference. And pretty obvious on what it means. Merc has no need to manufacture any shock value - there's a distinct line drawn and the church has very prominently nosed its way into a couple's personal life.

[_bcspace]

See - "strongly discourages surgical sterilization as an elective form of birth control"; "should consult . . . with their bishop and should receive divine confirmation of their decision through prayer." Compare that to the birth control language. Big difference. And pretty obvious on what it means. Merc has no need to manufacture any shock value - there's a distinct line drawn and the church has very prominently nosed its way into a couple's personal life.

Doesn't follow on several levels.

1. 'Discouraged' and 'should' are not commands especially considering their usage in the CHI compared to other statements.
2. Since the Church does not dictate the number of children a couple should have, it's opinion on the matter has little or nothing at all to do with having children.

Therefore, Merc has manufactured a conclusion that doesn't take into account the other statement(s).

Consider: Suppose a person or couple came into the Bishop and asked about it. What other counsel could be given other than that of the second statement? Nothing at all.

[_skippy the dead]

Doesn't follow on several levels.

1. 'Discouraged' and 'should' are not commands especially considering their usage in the CHI compared to other statements.
2. Since the Church does not dictate the number of children a couple should have, it's opinion on the matter has little or nothing at all to do with having children.

Therefore, Merc has manufactured a conclusion that doesn't take into account the other statement(s).

Consider: Suppose a person or couple came into the Bishop and asked about it. What other counsel could be given other than that of the second statement? Nothing at all.

Then why even say that a couple "should" consult with the bishop? The same language doesn't apply to using condoms or the pill. There is a distinction made just in the separate method of treating the issue.