My fear: being wrong about whether the church is true or not

[_Yoda]

Hi, CocaCola! :)

Welcome to the board!

My perspective is a little different than some here. I'm what some would call a New Order Mormon, or a Cafeteria Mormon. Boaz affectionately refers to me as a Jack Mormon. LOL

I still attend Church, and I do believe in God and in Jesus. However, I question many of the specific LDS tenets of the gospel. I choose to worship Christ by attending the Church I grew up in, and play the piano for Primary. I'm doing what works best for me and for my family situation.

I think that everyone has to do that.

My point is, if your decision to leave the Church is truly a decision which you feel good about..a decision which is best for your emotional situation, and for your family, then, in my opinion, (which may or may not be worth much...lol) if there is a God, he will be understanding of your choices. I tend to believe more in the New Testament God than the Old Testament one. ;)

God knows the desires of our hearts. If we are being good people, then God will see that. So, even if you have left the Church, if you are still being a good person and living a moral life, I don't think you have anything to fear from God.

With your permission, I would like to move this thread to the Terrestrial Forum. It is definitely on the topic of Mormonism, and you will gain more posts that way.

Again, welcome to the board.

:)

[_the road to hana]

Since we're all discussing fears...

My biggest fear is being wrong about whether or not the church is true and if God exists or not.

Keep in mind those are two completely separate propositions. God's existence is not dependent on the LDS Church being true.

Most people I find tackle those one at a time, and at least some cling to some hope or belief in a supreme being even if they've discarded the LDS version of it. Eventually, many also discard belief in God (for many, this is so intertwined with having learned about or encountered "God" in Mormonism they have difficulty separating the two).

I think if you consider yourself a "spiritual" person, feel free to ask for some sort of divine guidance, even if it's just meditating to get to the center of your own consciousness, in order to sort out your journey. You might arrive at a point where you've discarded everything you previously held to be true, or believed in, or you might arrive at a point that you've separated Mormonism from belief in God and retained one and not the other.

[_Jason Bourne]

Since we're all discussing fears...

My biggest fear is being wrong about whether or not the church is true and if God exists or not.

Keep in mind those are two completely separate propositions. God's existence is not dependent on the LDS Church being true.

Most people I find tackle those one at a time, and at least some cling to some hope or belief in a supreme being even if they've discarded the LDS version of it. Eventually, many also discard belief in God (for many, this is so intertwined with having learned about or encountered "God" in Mormonism they have difficulty separating the two).

I think if you consider yourself a "spiritual" person, feel free to ask for some sort of divine guidance, even if it's just meditating to get to the center of your own consciousness, in order to sort out your journey. You might arrive at a point where you've discarded everything you previously held to be true, or believed in, or you might arrive at a point that you've separated Mormonism from belief in God and retained one and not the other.

Good advice from Hana and Liz.

[_Black Moclips]

The problem I see however, is that staying in the church just because of fear won't get you any points with God (if even he does exist and even if the church is true). In a "fearful of the consequences state" you will never rise to the level of dedication and sacrifice that you need to be in in order to make it to the highest levels of heaven. You are "luke warm" so to speak, and only fit to be God's loogie. Yeah or nay. Make your choice.

(Not that I personally follow the above advice as I'm an active doubter and skeptic of all things religious these days. I sort of enjoy being a loogie).

[_The Nehor]

"People will then often say 'But surely it’s better to remain an Agnostic just in case?' This, to me, suggests such a level of silliness and muddle that I usually edge out of the conversation rather than get sucked into it. (If it turns out that I’ve been wrong all along, and there is in fact a god, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would chose not to worship him anyway.)"
-Douglas Adams

[_antishock8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

I'm similar to Mercury. I was literally frightened at the thought of being on the wrong side of the issue, even though everything seemed to point me in the direction I was headed. It's that indoctrination that kept me in much longer than I should have been. However, one day, when I actually allowed myself the *gasp* notion that it's not true *ungasp* I moved to a place from whence I could never return.

So. I went from fear to remorse, and from remorse to peace. I'm currently hoping to transition from peace to happiness within the context of a temporary existence. We give meaning to our own lives, and it's this endeavor I'm doing now. It's a brave new world... Indeed.

*edit: I'm not sure how to get the URL function to work properly.

[_the road to hana]

"People will then often say 'But surely it’s better to remain an Agnostic just in case?' This, to me, suggests such a level of silliness and muddle that I usually edge out of the conversation rather than get sucked into it. (If it turns out that I’ve been wrong all along, and there is in fact a god, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would chose not to worship him anyway.)"
-Douglas Adams

I'm not entirely sure what the words "remain an agnostic" mean, particularly for people who didn't regard themselves as agnostic to begin with (even if technically they were).

Chiding someone, however, for retaining belief in order to hedge their bets suggests they'd have no other reason to take apart their belief system carefully and piece by piece, examining each piece. It's that sort of language that encourages many former Mormons to just discard everything part and parcel.

I'm partial to the words Shakespeare gave Polonius, which I think are well applied in these matters: "This above all, to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou can'st not be false to any man."

People should discard belief in a supreme being if that's what they feel is correct. They should retain it if that's what they feel is correct. Doing it out of fear is never a good reason. Being convinced by others they're only doing it out of fear is equally wrong.

[_The Nehor]

"People will then often say 'But surely it’s better to remain an Agnostic just in case?' This, to me, suggests such a level of silliness and muddle that I usually edge out of the conversation rather than get sucked into it. (If it turns out that I’ve been wrong all along, and there is in fact a god, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would chose not to worship him anyway.)"
-Douglas Adams

I'm not entirely sure what the words "remain an agnostic" mean, particularly for people who didn't regard themselves as agnostic to begin with (even if technically they were).

Chiding someone, however, for retaining belief in order to hedge their bets suggests they'd have no other reason to take apart their belief system carefully and piece by piece, examining each piece. It's that sort of language that encourages many former Mormons to just discard everything part and parcel.

I'm partial to the words Shakespeare gave Polonius, which I think are well applied in these matters: "This above all, to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou can'st not be false to any man."

People should discard belief in a supreme being if that's what they feel is correct. They should retain it if that's what they feel is correct. Doing it out of fear is never a good reason. Being convinced by others they're only doing it out of fear is equally wrong.

Well, the quote is directed at those who would suggest that a kind of wishy-washy low level religious belief in God held only out of fear that it MIGHT be true is probably useless and a waste of time.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

Ya know whats funny, I used to fear that when I was a member. Now that I am out I could not imagine second guessing myself. Its that obvious.

This did not gradually set in. I knew the answer while I was still in. It was the act of cutting the chains and standing up for what I knew that gave me the light and surety.

I hope I get to this point.

If you are determined to keep that hope alive and feed it, I promise your hope will be realized.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

I went from fear to remorse, and from remorse to peace. I'm currently hoping to transition from peace to happiness within the context of a temporary existence. We give meaning to our own lives, and it's this endeavor I'm doing now.

You forgot to mention the "lashing out in odd anger at Mormons" aspect of your journey.