The Nehor wrote:I recently read a book that posited that stable cultures are all built around a satisfying religion. Those societies that do not have answers to the 'great and terrible' questions don't tend to last long. It's possible it is a survival mechanism though of course I consider it to be much more then just that.
Basically, that's what Karen Armstrong says. In a time when life was so fragile, those that had "answers," despite whether they were true or myth, would have hope, purpose and reason to live another day. This is the process of natural selection -- those that had the ability and wiring to survive, then procreate (passing on the traits), would develop the "spiritual center" of the brain.
The simple analysis of whether the spiritual thinking was accurate or not involves logos (logic). By comparing the various cultures that held strong to their spiritual conviction, we find that the mythologies were vastly disparate, despite results that indicate their deep belief; ie, sacrificing human life for the cause -- even today in many cultures.
I would argue that life is even more fragile today. We have so many cool new ways to kill each other with all the same old reasons still there.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Some Schmo wrote:I think it's just a matter of the placebo affect being so strong and powerful that those that submitted to it had more "spirit" and tended to thrive more easily than people who were more realistic about their ignorance.
Plus, there's much to be said about social animals tending to develop characteristics that support the group. Religion has been around so long that people actually think it informs their morals, when in reality, the moral sense is already there; the religion is an afterthought. At its roots, religion is just a way of articulating and codifying morals, and is about as useful as a dictionary written by a child.
True...but what created the placebo effect? The ability of the brain to intently believe something that may not be true...isn't that what we're talking about here?
(by the way, I agree with you about the codification of morals -- well said!)
Überzeugungen sind oft die gefährlichsten Feinde der Wahrheit.
[Certainty (that one is correct) is often the most dangerous enemy of the
truth.] - Friedrich Nietzsche
I also find it interesting that some of the myths, as it were, are congruous. Many differing cultures have, for example, a flood myth. Do you find that interesting or is it just coincidence?
I also find it interesting that some of the myths, as it were, are congruous. Many differing cultures have, for example, a flood myth. Do you find that interesting or is it just coincidence?
Yes, besides the flood myths, what fascinates me is the similar stories of the "God-men" throughout history. From Osirus/Dionysis to many others, there is a pattern of them being half God, half man; being born of a virgin under humble beginnings; suffering to become enlightened, taking on the sins of man, after death, descending to hell, then three days rising again to ascend to heaven, etc.
Jesus was one of the most recent God-men in our history. The scholars I've read mostly believe Jesus existed, was a teacher, but the traits of deity were adopted from the common Pagan traditions of the time.
Überzeugungen sind oft die gefährlichsten Feinde der Wahrheit.
[Certainty (that one is correct) is often the most dangerous enemy of the
truth.] - Friedrich Nietzsche
I also find it interesting that some of the myths, as it were, are congruous. Many differing cultures have, for example, a flood myth. Do you find that interesting or is it just coincidence?
Yes, besides the flood myths, what fascinates me is the similar stories of the "God-men" throughout history. From Osirus/Dionysis to many others, there is a pattern of them being half God, half man; being born of a virgin under humble beginnings; suffering to become enlightened, taking on the sins of man, after death, descending to hell, then three days rising again to ascend to heaven, etc.
Jesus was one of the most recent God-men in our history. The scholars I've read mostly believe Jesus existed, was a teacher, but the traits of deity were adopted from the common Pagan traditions of the time.
Careful, the last thing we want is for JAK to join this thread.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
In the last 500 years or so, the inclination towards religiocity has been less out of a need to explain natural phenomena (such as lightning and so forth) and more out of a need to find a sense of purpose and meaning and justice in life beyond what may be derived from a purely materialistic point of view--things that engender a healthy respect for life and liberty and happiness, which ironically may at times make going to war and killing morally imparitive.
Now, whether this is a function of natural evolution or spiritual evolution, is open to debate.
it may also have to do with power and security. ninety nine percent are being taught about God gradually but did not think or start that thought - Look at Hebrew priests who wrote the old testament. They had a compelling interest in people following them and their God - food. They got ten percent of the sacrifice which kept them and their family fed.
BishopRic wrote: True...but what created the placebo effect? The ability of the brain to intently believe something that may not be true...isn't that what we're talking about here?
(by the way, I agree with you about the codification of morals -- well said!)
That's a really good question, and I think the answer lies in self-preservation tendencies of every living thing. You think about a child who hears from his/her parent, "Don't go near that large, flesh-eating cat." Does the child question the parent? Does he/she test the parents' implicit hypothesis (large, flesh-eating cats are dangerous)? Nope. They just believe it, because believing it helps it survive. Disobedient kids would literally be killed off for not listening.
Believing stuff based on the word of authority figures and without personal experience has obvious self-preservation benefits, and it seems to me that, given how our beliefs/thoughts are intertwined with our physiology (for example, being stressed out causes high blood pressure, or being happy causes one to smile and laugh), and that our bodies are equipped with the chemicals needed to fight infection and heal itself, the placebo phenomenon is a reasonable side-effect of years of "believing without evidence for survival" evolution.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.