Another FLDS thread by never-Mo onlooker, another way?

[_Jersey Girl]

I find myself increasingly disturbed by this FLDS story. I've been reading some excerpts from Carolyn Jessop that make me want to scream in my head. So far, I've managed not to post the excerpts and actually scream on the screen, though I did have my finger on the "submit" button the other night, something to the effect of "Hideous and Despicable!!" and chose not to post it. If the excerpts are true, Warren Jessop was a sociopathic brutal bastard! I don't know if Jeff's was the same way.

Looking at the news reports, I feel sorry for the evacuees from the YFZ ranch. They must be going through major culture shock and I can't really bring myself at the moment to think about what the children are going through separated from what they know as "home" and "family". Even if we think it bizzare, it was home and family to them.

I wonder if there wasn't a better way to deal with all of this? Could the state have sent in counselors to sort things out with the families without displacing children? Med tech's to do the dna testing right at the ranch?

I just don't know...

I do understand the need for intervention and determining marriages between underage minor's but could this have been done without the major upheaval?

Your thoughts?

[_the road to hana]

I do understand the need for intervention and determining marriages between underage minor's but could this have been done without the major upheaval?

Your thoughts?

Sure. Warren Jeffs could have told everyone to stop practicing polygamy or having sex with underage children.

[_msnobody]

It is just not a good situation any way you look at it before or after the removal of the children. I have to say though, that children can be resilient and sometimes I think younger children have an innate sense of right and wrong. I think this will turn out good for some and others will not fare as well. If there is abuse, one shouldn't stand by pretending it doesn't exist.

[_msnobody]

Had the church never issued the manifesto, life for TBMs today would probably have been much the same as the FLDS.

[_Jersey Girl]

It is just not a good situation any way you look at it before or after the removal of the children. I have to say though, that children can be resilient and sometimes I think younger children have an innate sense of right and wrong. I think this will turn out good for some and others will not fare as well. If there is abuse, one shouldn't stand by pretending it doesn't exist.

I agree that there needs to be a determination made of some sort. I'm just wondering if it could have been done a different way. I do know there is sound reasoning for separating them all.

[_Mercury]

The lives of these individuals were ones wherein when a child was very young they would be beaten severely followed by submerging the head underwater until gasping. The nature of the patriarchs of the FLDS community is where children neither laugh or cry. They are easilly manipulated, raped and used like cattle.

The State of Texas is more than justified in what they are doing. It is sick and bewildering to me why Utah and Arizona have not done the same. Drive them out and convict the mothers adn fathers who resist, committ the half that don't violently resist and put the kids in Foster care far far away from the FLDS who escape the view of the law.

The FLDS are a reservoir for a mind virus that has gone terminal.

[_skippy the dead]

I've given this an inordinate amount of thought over the last couple weeks. My big issue now is that the state had no real plan for taking care of these 425+ kids, and each step they've taken since the raid has been increasingly stupid and harmful. Although they may have thought that they had a basis to go in as a result of the (now likely false) phone calls, the way that they've treated the women and children since removing them from the compound is deplorable. That they are now taking nursing babies from their mothers is absolutely revolting. Handling the dependency case en masse is a huge boneheaded move.

I'm glad that the ACLU is stepping in now - there needs to be some greater power brought to bear against the state to right this wrong. It appears that the state is arguing that the religion itself is harmful to the children, and that's not just at the top of a slippery slope, but darn near the bottom of said slope. The state needs to identify precisely which children are in imminent danger of harm, and handle their cases individually. The rest of the kids should go home with their moms and have CPS come in and conduct home visits and interviews where warranted.

I cannot disagree more strongly with the lifestyle imposed on the kids, but I'm not prepared to have them all taken away from their families under the guise of abuse. That's just plain wrong.

[_Jersey Girl]

The lives of these individuals were ones wherein when a child was very young they would be beaten severely followed by submerging the head underwater until gasping. The nature of the patriarchs of the FLDS community is where children neither laugh or cry. They are easilly manipulated, raped and used like cattle.

The State of Texas is more than justified in what they are doing. It is sick and bewildering to me why Utah and Arizona have not done the same. Drive them out and convict the mothers and fathers who resist, committ the half that don't violently resist and put the kids in Foster care far far away from the FLDS who escape the view of the law.

The FLDS are a reservoir for a mind virus that has gone terminal.

I can't reply to the above without going completely Telestial. I agree with you.

[_Jersey Girl]

I've given this an inordinate amount of thought over the last couple weeks. My big issue now is that the state had no real plan for taking care of these 425+ kids, and each step they've taken since the raid has been increasingly stupid and harmful. Although they may have thought that they had a basis to go in as a result of the (now likely false) phone calls, the way that they've treated the women and children since removing them from the compound is deplorable. That they are now taking nursing babies from their mothers is absolutely revolting. Handling the dependency case en masse is a huge boneheaded move.

I'm glad that the ACLU is stepping in now - there needs to be some greater power brought to bear against the state to right this wrong. It appears that the state is arguing that the religion itself is harmful to the children, and that's not just at the top of a slippery slope, but darn near the bottom of said slope. The state needs to identify precisely which children are in imminent danger of harm, and handle their cases individually. The rest of the kids should go home with their moms and have CPS come in and conduct home visits and interviews where warranted.

I cannot disagree more strongly with the lifestyle imposed on the kids, but I'm not prepared to have them all taken away from their families under the guise of abuse. That's just plain wrong.

Home visits were what I was thinking of, skippy. I didn't read about the separation of nursing infants from mothers. That in and of itself, is abusive.

[_skippy the dead]

Home visits were what I was thinking of, skippy. I didn't read about the separation of nursing infants from mothers. That in and of itself, is abusive.

This truly is a case of shoot first, ask questions later. And I don't think it will end well for anybody.

The state keeps doing amazingly idiotic things, and I think "That's the worst thing they've done yet." Then they do something even more idiotic. For instance, they send all the adolescent boys to a ranch for troubled teens 400 miles away. Any attorney representing them now has to drive over 7 hours to meet with them, then 7 hours back to the courthouse where the hearings are. How asinine is that? Then it gets worse - they have a mass hearing for all 425+ kids, where some bozo testifies that the religion itself is abuse, blanket statement. Then they realize that they didn't even count the kids right - there's an extra dozen and a half. Then they can't let the mothers pray with their children without supervision. Then they say "Hey, let's get a Mormon out here to monitor the prayers, because they're pretty much the same religion." Then they decide that once the DNA samples are given, they'll take all nursing children away from their mothers.

It's like they can't get one stupid detail right. It's maddening, and it's going to make any kind of law enforcement amongst the polygamous clans in the future darn near impossible.