RockHeaded wrote:[...]I just wanted to add that when one reads that whole chapter in Jacob it is obvious that polygamy is being condemned.
Agreed.
I've read through the justification the Utah Church uses with Jacob and it makes no sense.
I disagree.
In order to get this justification the reader has to ignore most of the chapter and focus on one verse.
Actually, they account for the one verse.
By doing that the Utah Church has taken Jacob out of context to justify a perverse doctrine (or pleasure).
Assuming, of course, that more than one wife is a pleasure. (Anyone here seen Big Love? yeesh.)
The FLDS church has shown us yet again why it is an abomination to God.
Agreed.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
the road to hana wrote:Your statement makes no sense, but whatever. I probably knew the Book of Mormon contradicted D&C 132 before you were a pup.
This would be very likely, if it actually did contradict.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
Conclusion: The Book of Mormon fully condemns the Practice of Polygamy.
No it doesn't. While you paid lip service to Jacob 2:30, you did not address it or factor it in to a coherent doctrine based on all verses on the subject. Since your interpretation cannot account for it, your interpretation is false. In fact your interpretation absolutely depends on sweeping this verse (and several others) under the rug. In that sense, you're no different from an Evangelical christian.
For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
This verse still flies in the face of your conclusion, indicating that God can instruct people to live the law of plural marriage. I think your exegesis is interesting, but I do not limit "raising seed" to monogamous relationship in every case throughout all time. (Check Brant Gardner's book Second Witness vol. 1, he makes an interesting case for the possibility of plural marriage among the Lehites. I'm not totally convinced; I don't know either way.)
The "raising up seed" theory is nice and all, except apologists claim Joseph Smith didn't have sex with his plural wives, and it appears he didn't have any offspring with his plural wives over a span of 13 years. Since Joseph obviously wasn't raising up seed, which is the reason God might allow polygamy, did he fail the part that says "otherwise they shall hearken unto these things?"
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
Joseph Smith wasn't the only person to practice plural marriage, as you well know. That is an entire different issue, however, than whether the Book of Mormon says plural marriage is always condemned.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
This verse still flies in the face of your conclusion, indicating that God can instruct people to live the law of plural marriage. I think your exegesis is interesting, but I do not limit "raising seed" to monogamous relationship in every case throughout all time. (Check Brant Gardner's book Second Witness vol. 1, he makes an interesting case for the possibility of plural marriage among the Lehites. I'm not totally convinced; I don't know either way.)
The "raising up seed" theory is nice and all, except apologists claim Joseph Smith didn't have sex with his plural wives, and it appears he didn't have any offspring with his plural wives over a span of 13 years. Since Joseph obviously wasn't raising up seed, which is the reason God might allow polygamy, did he fail the part that says "otherwise they shall hearken unto these things?"
In defense of the apologists, there are very few fringe apologists claim that he didn't have sex with the polygamous wives. Most claim there is no evidence that he ever had sex with the polyandrous wives, but most believe he did have sex with the polygamist wives.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
Inconceivable wrote: The fuzzy math used to attempt to prove otherwise runs parallel to the formulas used to promote MLM - a sub economy of Mormonism.
MLM's are a sub economy of Mormonism? Wow. I bet the Jay Van Andle and Rich Devos the founders of Amway, the KING of MLMs would be shocked. They are both devoted members of the Dutch Reform Church.
Last edited by Lem on Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Conclusion: The Book of Mormon fully condemns the Practice of Polygamy.
No it doesn't. While you paid lip service to Jacob 2:30, you did not address it or factor it in to a coherent doctrine based on all verses on the subject. Since your interpretation cannot account for it, your interpretation is false. In fact your interpretation absolutely depends on sweeping this verse (and several others) under the rug. In that sense, you're no different from an Evangelical christian.
Jacob says ALL of David and Solomon's extra wives and concubines were and abomination. D&C 132 says that only the issue with Bathsheba was a sin. This is a flat out contradiction.
The "raising up seed" theory is nice and all, except apologists claim Joseph Smith didn't have sex with his plural wives, and it appears he didn't have any offspring with his plural wives over a span of 13 years. Since Joseph obviously wasn't raising up seed, which is the reason God might allow polygamy, did he fail the part that says "otherwise they shall hearken unto these things?"
Apologists don't claim that at all. The claim he may not have had sex with some of them, primarily the young ones and the polyandrous ones.
The "raising up seed" theory is nice and all, except apologists claim Joseph Smith didn't have sex with his plural wives, and it appears he didn't have any offspring with his plural wives over a span of 13 years. Since Joseph obviously wasn't raising up seed, which is the reason God might allow polygamy, did he fail the part that says "otherwise they shall hearken unto these things?"
Apologists don't claim that at all. The claim he may not have had sex with some of them, primarily the young ones and the polyandrous ones.
Still, according to the Book of Mormon, the purpose for polygamy is to raise up seed, otherwise it is an abomination. If they're going to use that as a loophole to allow for polygamy, how do they explain that Joseph produced no known offspring in 13 years from his plural wives, and some of them (according to their own argument) he didn't even try to produce offspring with? That completely breaks the rules of polygamy according to the Book of Mormon.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks