Paranoia - Ben Stein - Evolution & No Intelligence FOUND

[_Moniker]

Did anyone bother to go see it? They're not showing it at my local theatre. I'll have to download it, I suppose.

[_EAllusion]

Now that the expelledexposed website is fully up, it is pretty decent.

Apparently, Expelled is also pushing supplementary material that is standard creationist boilerplate dating back decades. This makes for a nice way to illustrate the connection between ID and creationism yet again, as demonstrated here: http://pigeonchess.wordpress.com/2008/0 ... sm-part-i/

[_The Dude]

Bill Hamblin saw it and wrote a review over on MADB. He seems to have been disappointed that Stein didn't differentiate between young earth creationists and more progressive IDers like himself. Bill also lamented (as I read him) that Stein spent 20-25% of the film talking about links between Nazism and Darwinism. OTOH, Daniel Peterson, sporting his new Jabba the Hut avatar, goes on to defend the usefulness of the Nazi angle (usefulness in general -- DCP hasn't seen the film).

Unlike some perpetually objective atheists I know, I don't believe one should review a book or movie until one has actually read or seen the movie.

Well, I went to Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed this afternoon, and here is a brief review.

First, the documentary is rather boring, and not really funny. (There are occasional funny parts, but I expected more satire.) Second, I really didn't learn anything new. There were no real insights into either the issues themselves, or the politics and power struggles behind the issues. Third, he failed to clearly distinguish between Young Earth Creationism and evolutionary models of ID--which in itself plays into the hands of the anti-ID crowd who want to "expel" evolutionary ID as non-science by trying to link it with Young Earth Creationism. Fourth, he did make the point that ID can, in fact, take a non-theistic form, and--in an amusing interview with Dawkins--got him to admit that it might be possible that super-intelligent/evolved alien civilizations could have seeded the earth with life (but, according to Dawkins, it couldn't have been God). Fifth, about a quarter of the documentary was spent on the evils of social Darwinism as a foundation for Nazis and Eugenicists, some of which was rather chilling.

Stein's meta-narrative was that the science establishment--including universities, government, the media and the courts--are intentionally and consistently suppressing academic freedom by trying in various ways to silence or marginalize proponents of ID. He used an over-arching allegory comparing this to the way "science" worked in the Soviet Era, that is, there is a dogmatic institutionally sponsored science which systematically tries to suppress opposing views. Evolution is the new institutional dogma, according to Stein, and any who even question it may be punished by ostracism and loss of jobs. (He interviewed half a dozen people who lost their jobs (and/or were not given tenure) because they supported (or even merely mentioned) ID in the classroom or in articles. (He said there were many others who refused to appear on camera because of fear of repercussions.) Stein presented himself as the champion of academic freedom, and said if atheist evolutionists are, in fact, correct, they have nothing to fear by allowing ID proponents to present their case. (I think he's fundamentally right. Atheist evolutionists only hurt their case by their sometimes paranoid and ranting reaction to ID.) The atheist evolutionists Stein interviewed, including Dawkins, admitted that they cannot explain how life began (that is, transformed from inorganic to organic reproducing organisms with extraordinarily complex cellular features). It seems to me a rational debate about the relative merits of ID vs. random chance as an explanatory model is in order. Because of the polarization on both sides, however, (Fundamentalists vs. radical atheists), I doubt this will come about.

Personally, I didn't find it worth the hour and a half, nor the $5 (I went to the matinee to save money). There were only two people in the theater, so I suspect this will not be a big seller, nor last long in theaters.

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... opic=35207

[_Moniker]

Oh, Eallusion, thanks for the link!

Dude, thanks, I'll look over that thread.

Fifth, about a quarter of the documentary was spent on the evils of social Darwinism as a foundation for Nazis and Eugenicists, some of which was rather chilling.

Oh, man, I'm going to have to look over the thread, yet, I hope someone already replied to this. The thoughts behind Social Darwinism actually predate Darwin's publication of Origin of Species with Spencer. If some want to get frothy about social Darwinism they need to check out their votes at the ballot box.

[_antishock8]

Ugh. Just perused it.



Edit: Appeals to authority, non seqiturs, and a host of other fallacies does not a sound science make. That's Creationism. That's Intelligent Design. What bothers me is the abject rejectionism of truth by people who purport to seek it out. And it's these people who are leading less discerning types into a quagmire of muddled thinking, pseudo-science, and magical fairy tales which make them susceptible to charlatans and deceivers.

At the end of the day, the apologists embrace everything we embrace about rationalism and logic, but with the exception of one thing: They want their fairy tale, too. It's the weirdest duality I've ever seen. And the KNOW it. And because their duality of thinking is so absurd they resort back to the very thing they embrace, trying to cram the absurd into rationalis because they KNOW they're being absurd and are EMBARRASSED by it.

And that makes them liars. They lie to themselves. They lie to others. They're liars of the worst sort because they KNOW they're lying, and whether or not they care or not is beside the point. The lie must be upheld through constant, continual deception, at any cost. That's pathetic.

[_Some Schmo]

A quote from this site http://www.expelledexposed.com/

I read every chapter on that site. Great stuff, and exactly the kind of thing I suspected when considering the thrust of the trailer linked in the OP.

Proponents of ID are the "scientific" equivalent of the Keystone Cops.

[_The Nehor]

The movie looks boring, gonna pass.

[_antishock8]

The movie looks boring, gonna pass.

That's the first respectable thing I think I've seen you post. Awesome. Wait. Are you a Creationist? crap. I may have just complimented a Creationist.

[_Coggins7]

I'm sure a few of you have already seen this. I saw it a few months ago and tried to forget it. But I thought I'd share:

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed (Super Trailer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGCxbhGaVfE

What was surprising to me was the paranoia! Look at the comments under the video and you'll see a bunch of flunkies saying, "RIGHT ON STEIN!"

My favorite line is, "Everything that exists is created by a loving God. That includes rooocks, trees, animals, people, really everything."

PROFOUND!

That which you are not.

Indeed, profoud...

[_Moniker]

Ouch, Coggins. Was that supposed to be witty or novel? Hmmm.... try again, won't you? Oh, wait -- you already did on the first page. Bored this evening? Had to come in and make another swipe at the woman that you can insult ONLY because she has no desire to be cruel to you?

How about saying something to one of the fellas on this thread? Is it more fun to follow me about making comments about my intelligence?

That's what all big boys do!