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_asbestosman
_Emeritus
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Post by _asbestosman »

Sethbag wrote:Joseph Smith started all of this, LOAP, with his wildly inappropriate sexual liaisons with young women and girls who were not his legal wife. He manipulated them, he seduced them, he coerced them spiritually, he imposed upon them, and then he screwed them.

I was unaware of any evidence that Joseph went to bed with the young girls. I can easily condemn statutory rape without condemning Joseph. I don't need to justify that for which I've seen no evidence.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
_Mike Reed
_Emeritus
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Post by _Mike Reed »

Sethbag wrote:Guys, I don't believe that Wheat is for real. I think he's trying to push an extreme view on purpose to try to make some kind of point against the critics, by going way over the top, as it were.

Don't feed the trolls.


Ok. Got it.
_asbestosman
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:32 pm

Post by _asbestosman »

Sethbag wrote:Don't feed the trolls.

Oh, but I have a nice, juicy bag of troll-poison for him to munch on. Can I feed it to him please?
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

asbestosman wrote:
Sethbag wrote:Don't feed the trolls.

Oh, but I have a nice, juicy bag of troll-poison for him to munch on. Can I feed it to him please?


Only if you brought enough for everyone.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_asbestosman
_Emeritus
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:32 pm

Post by _asbestosman »

The Nehor wrote:
asbestosman wrote:
Sethbag wrote:Don't feed the trolls.

Oh, but I have a nice, juicy bag of troll-poison for him to munch on. Can I feed it to him please?


Only if you brought enough for everyone.

Only if each troll eats the poisoned corpse of the previous troll.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
Posts: 2799
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

asbestosman wrote:
Sethbag wrote:Joseph Smith started all of this, LOAP, with his wildly inappropriate sexual liaisons with young women and girls who were not his legal wife. He manipulated them, he seduced them, he coerced them spiritually, he imposed upon them, and then he screwed them.

I was unaware of any evidence that Joseph went to bed with the young girls. I can easily condemn statutory rape without condemning Joseph. I don't need to justify that for which I've seen no evidence.


That's about where I sit, as well.

Oh, and the blame game goes way past Joseph Smith. At least back to our friend, The Bible.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_Wheat
_Emeritus
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:19 am

Post by _Wheat »

(Off topic, but I don't want to dig up the thread... any response regarding the identity of Brown?)

Of course Helorum is Matthew Brown. He’s never really tried to hide the fact. He and Dan Vogel have engaged in numerous discussions/threads on the FAIR/MAD board over the years, and it’s all but acknowledged that Helorum/Matt Brown are one and the same. Dan quotes Matt from his books, then Helorum defends, then Dan quotes again, etc. It’s not a secret.

Good God! The LDS church is NOTHING like the FLDS in terms of abuse!

At least the LDS church attempts to be charitable (although not as much as I'd like to see). When was the last time the FLDS did anything that wasn't absolutely self-serving?

Gimme a break! I read this board frequently (although I comment rarely) and I’ve read at least ten threads here in the past few weeks where many of the regular posters are going on and on about how there is little or no difference between the FLDS and the LDS.

And the LDS don’t do any charitable stuff for nothing! You need to wake up. Everything they do is calculated to get them in the door somewhere so they can start gathering up new recruits into their revenue-generating cult.

And then what? Once we'd rid the world of the evils of Mormonism, do we now turn on the whole of Christianity? Or should we try and weed out those horrible, brainwashed Muslims next? Or should we just focus on the smaller "weird" churches? JW's and Scientology?

Well, I think we need to take these things one at a time.

My point is that there has finally been a precedent set for doing this sort of thing. Texas has shown the way. And I can’t really see any difference between gathering up FLDS kids in Texas for the purpose of reprogramming them than gathering LDS kids in Texas for the same purpose. Both systems are demonstrably injurious to the body politic. No one but the TBMs here would argue against that point. And up until now no one has been bold enough or resolute enough to actually do something about it. It took a woman judge in Texas to demonstrate how you can deal with these kinds of problems in the 21st century.

Guys, I don't believe that Wheat is for real. I think he's trying to push an extreme view on purpose to try to make some kind of point against the critics, by going way over the top, as it were.

Don't feed the trolls.

What are you talking about?

OK, smart guy, you tell me why we shouldn’t do the same thing with LDS kids that Texas is doing with FLDS kids? And make sure you keep your explanation consistent with your other opinions about the dangers of Mormonism, or we’ll pronounce you a hypocrite.

The fact is that Texas has demonstrated that we don’t need any specific “crimes” in order to undertake a massive reprogramming project of this nature. As unlikely as most of us might have seen such a development, don’t you think it’s important – even imperative – that we seize the opportunity that has now presented itself?

If we can successfully remove FLDS children from their parents in Texas, there is no doubt in my mind that we can successfully remove LDS children as well, and the sooner we get to it, the better. Before they really do put one of their cult androids in the Oval office!
_asbestosman
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:32 pm

Post by _asbestosman »

Wheat,

I also have used sarcasm and exaggeration on some of these threads to make a point. However, I think I know when to stop. Exaggerate a little, and then head back to serious talk without the exaggeration. I'm sure you'll find it's more effective. Why not give it try?
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
_harmony
_Emeritus
Posts: 18195
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Post by _harmony »

Wheat wrote:My point is that there has finally been a precedent set for doing this sort of thing. Texas has shown the way. And I can’t really see any difference between gathering up FLDS kids in Texas for the purpose of reprogramming them than gathering LDS kids in Texas for the same purpose. Both systems are demonstrably injurious to the body politic.


Please explain this point a bit more. You have shown no foundation for this statement, so I'm wondering what it is about the LDS church that is on par with the rampant child abuse in the FLDS?

No one but the TBMs here would argue against that point.


Balderdash. If you've lurked here as often as you say you have, you know we all argue on both sides of virtually any issue, depending on the present scenario.

Don't feed the trolls.

What are you talking about?


If you've been here or on MAD as often as you claim, you'd know what this means.

OK, smart guy, you tell me why we shouldn’t do the same thing with LDS kids that Texas is doing with FLDS kids?


Mainly because the FLDS are breaking the laws against child abuse, based on the number of pregnant underage teenage girls, and you can't show anything similiar in the LDS world.

The fact is that Texas has demonstrated that we don’t need any specific “crimes” in order to undertake a massive reprogramming project of this nature.


The suspected crime is child abuse. You might want to look up the law on it.

If we can successfully remove FLDS children from their parents in Texas, there is no doubt in my mind that we can successfully remove LDS children as well, and the sooner we get to it, the better. Before they really do put one of their cult androids in the Oval office!


Hyperbole and rhetoric.

Again, bullshaloney. Document widespread legally defined child abuse in any LDS community before you spout off again.
_Scottie
_Emeritus
Posts: 4166
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:54 pm

Post by _Scottie »

Wheat wrote:
(Off topic, but I don't want to dig up the thread... any response regarding the identity of Brown?)

Of course Helorum is Matthew Brown. He’s never really tried to hide the fact. He and Dan Vogel have engaged in numerous discussions/threads on the FAIR/MAD board over the years, and it’s all but acknowledged that Helorum/Matt Brown are one and the same. Dan quotes Matt from his books, then Helorum defends, then Dan quotes again, etc. It’s not a secret.

Good God! The LDS church is NOTHING like the FLDS in terms of abuse!

At least the LDS church attempts to be charitable (although not as much as I'd like to see). When was the last time the FLDS did anything that wasn't absolutely self-serving?

Gimme a break! I read this board frequently (although I comment rarely) and I’ve read at least ten threads here in the past few weeks where many of the regular posters are going on and on about how there is little or no difference between the FLDS and the LDS.

Yes, the LDS and the FLDS share a common conception, and many common doctrines, but to say that there are very few differences between the two religions is intellectually dishonest. You know it and I know it.

And the LDS don’t do any charitable stuff for nothing! You need to wake up. Everything they do is calculated to get them in the door somewhere so they can start gathering up new recruits into their revenue-generating cult.

First, I would argue that many, MANY poor families would disagree that the charitable sum is "calculated". How many troubled families have been helped because the church steps in and pays the mortgage and puts food on the table?? Now, you can argue that they should do this to others outside the faith, but that is a different thread.

Second, regardless of how much or how little, or the reasons why, the LDS church DOES give charitable contributions. Does the FLDS?

And then what? Once we'd rid the world of the evils of Mormonism, do we now turn on the whole of Christianity? Or should we try and weed out those horrible, brainwashed Muslims next? Or should we just focus on the smaller "weird" churches? JW's and Scientology?

Well, I think we need to take these things one at a time.

My point is that there has finally been a precedent set for doing this sort of thing. Texas has shown the way. And I can’t really see any difference between gathering up FLDS kids in Texas for the purpose of reprogramming them than gathering LDS kids in Texas for the same purpose. Both systems are demonstrably injurious to the body politic. No one but the TBMs here would argue against that point. And up until now no one has been bold enough or resolute enough to actually do something about it. It took a woman judge in Texas to demonstrate how you can deal with these kinds of problems in the 21st century.

Well, one difference I see is that LDS children aren't being forced into underage marriages. LDS families don't live on a compound. LDS members have access to external media.

But I'm sure these tiny details don't matter in your opinion.

OK, smart guy, you tell me why we shouldn’t do the same thing with LDS kids that Texas is doing with FLDS kids? And make sure you keep your explanation consistent with your other opinions about the dangers of Mormonism, or we’ll pronounce you a hypocrite.

Let me the question around to you. What is so evil about SLC-LDS as opposed to, say, Baptists or Lutherans or Catholics?
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
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