A gentile's impression of Mormonism....

[_beastie]

I had an interesting experience today that typifies Mormonism’s PR problem in “the mission field.” While talking about families with large numbers of children with a coworker, I casually mentioned that I used to be LDS and knew several very large families. She was surprised, and rushed to assure me that she’d been to SLC and heard the Tabernacle Choir, so she was familiar with Mormonism. She also shared that she’d had conversations with missionaries in the past, out of curiosity and no interest in conversion, being extremely skeptical of anyone who claims to KNOW the “truth”.

She mentioned a couple of things that, to me, demonstrate that, despite spending who-knows how many millions on PR, the church is still pretty screwed in that area. First, she immediately associated polygamy with Mormonism, and remarked that she realized there were still some Mormons who practiced it. I tried to explain to her about the different sects of Mormonism, and that while they shared a common origin, the polygamous groups were offshoots and not connected to the Utah Mormon church, except through history. She nodded and added that Catholicism varied quite a bit from region to region, too. I tried to explain yet again, that they were actually a different church, an entirely different organization, albeit with common origins, but I’m unconvinced that it made any difference. I think that she views the LDS and FLDS like different branches of the Baptist church – some more conservative than others, but still under the same umbrella. The Mormon church’s worst fear come true.

No matter how hard the church tries, polygamy is the first thing most people think of when they hear “Mormon”. I do not believe the LDS church will ever escape this.

The second thing that was odd was something that the missionaries had supposedly taught her about the LDS church. She commented that she didn’t like that, to join the church, you had to agree to allow the church to automatically withdraw 10% of your income as tithing. Hunh??? Once again, I tried to explain how tithing works, how you’re not forced to pay tithing, and the church isn’t accessing people’s bank accounts. I said maybe she had gotten confused because you couldn’t enter the temple if you didn’t pay 10% of your income. She was insistent, though, that this was what the missionaries had taught her. Maybe, she said, it was just that particular congregation. No, no, I told her, the SL church controls how things are managed everywhere… by that point the conversation had to end.

I want to emphasize that this is an intelligent woman who has lived in several different cultures. She is educated and has experience in several different career fields. And yet, to her, despite all the valiant attempts of the LDS church, this is what she knows about the Mormons.

Guess all those “happy, shiny, Mormon” commercials aren’t doing much good.

No wonder the LDS church feels compelled to spend millions on PR campaigns. I’m afraid that they may be wasting their money.

[_Mister Scratch]

She mentioned a couple of things that, to me, demonstrate that, despite spending who-knows how many millions on PR, the church is still pretty screwed in that area. First, she immediately associated polygamy with Mormonism, and remarked that she realized there were still some Mormons who practiced it. I tried to explain to her about the different sects of Mormonism, and that while they shared a common origin, the polygamous groups were offshoots and not connected to the Utah Mormon church, except through history. She nodded and added that Catholicism varied quite a bit from region to region, too. I tried to explain yet again, that they were actually a different church, an entirely different organization, albeit with common origins, but I’m unconvinced that it made any difference. I think that she views the LDS and FLDS like different branches of the Baptist church – some more conservative than others, but still under the same umbrella. The Mormon church’s worst fear come true.

What?!? The LDS Church and the FLDS Churches don't share the same historical origin! That is a disputable historical fact! ; )

[_CaliforniaKid]

The second thing that was odd was something that the missionaries had supposedly taught her about the LDS church. She commented that she didn’t like that, to join the church, you had to agree to allow the church to automatically withdraw 10% of your income as tithing. Hunh???

I heard this urban legend in the early days of my investiagting, as well. Don't recall where. But an LDS friend confirmed that some people do set up automatic tithing payments each month, though this is on a purely voluntary basis (rather than mandatory, as I had heard).

[_beastie]

What?!? The LDS Church and the FLDS Churches don't share the same historical origin! That is a disputable historical fact! ; )

Hunh? No one said they don't share the same historical origin. We agreed on that, it's just my coworker thinks that it's just a more conservative LDS congregation, versus a completely different organization.

I wonder if part of the confusion is due to the fact that individual congregations in the protestant tradition have quite a bit of freedom and flexibility, and hence, can really differ dramatically.

[_CaliforniaKid]

I wonder if part of the confusion is due to the fact that individual congregations in the protestant tradition have quite a bit of freedom and flexibility, and hence, can really differ dramatically.

Indeed. This is especially true of the Baptists (whom you rightly used as your example of what it's not like). They have no confession, except governing seminary teachers and missionaries.

[_beastie]

I heard this urban legend in the early days of my investiagting, as well. Don't recall where. But an LDS friend confirmed that some people do set up automatic tithing payments each month, though this is on a purely voluntary basis (rather than mandatory, as I had heard).

I mentioned this as a possibility, as well. But I didn't convince her.

[_beastie]

Indeed. This is especially true of the Baptists (whom you rightly used as your example of what it's not like). They have no confession, except governing seminary teachers and missionaries.

Yes. I definitely sensed that my explanation of how the SLC church controls EVERYTHING and would not allow one specific congregation to "mandate" automatic withdrawals of tithing, it went right over her head. A complete cultural disconnect.

[_Jason Bourne]

I had an interesting experience today that typifies Mormonism’s PR problem in “the mission field.” While talking about families with large numbers of children with a coworker, I casually mentioned that I used to be LDS and knew several very large families. She was surprised, and rushed to assure me that she’d been to SLC and heard the Tabernacle Choir, so she was familiar with Mormonism. She also shared that she’d had conversations with missionaries in the past, out of curiosity and no interest in conversion, being extremely skeptical of anyone who claims to KNOW the “truth”.

I think that is common among many people. Even the solid Catholics I know, and I know quite a number, don't feel they have the corner on truth.

She mentioned a couple of things that, to me, demonstrate that, despite spending who-knows how many millions on PR, the church is still pretty screwed in that area. First, she immediately associated polygamy with Mormonism, and remarked that she realized there were still some Mormons who practiced it. I tried to explain to her about the different sects of Mormonism, and that while they shared a common origin, the polygamous groups were offshoots and not connected to the Utah Mormon church, except through history. She nodded and added that Catholicism varied quite a bit from region to region, too. I tried to explain yet again, that they were actually a different church, an entirely different organization, albeit with common origins, but I’m unconvinced that it made any difference. I think that she views the LDS and FLDS like different branches of the Baptist church – some more conservative than others, but still under the same umbrella. The Mormon church’s worst fear come true.

No matter how hard the church tries, polygamy is the first thing most people think of when they hear “Mormon”. I do not believe the LDS church will ever escape this.

THere is no question about this. Polygamy will always be tied to Mormonism. This is why the LDS Church is SOOOOOO anti polygamy. They are the most anti polygamy organization out there. But even so they leave it intact through their practice for sealings if a wife is deceased. And the Church leaves it in the canon. So perhaps this is deserved.

The second thing that was odd was something that the missionaries had supposedly taught her about the LDS church. She commented that she didn’t like that, to join the church, you had to agree to allow the church to automatically withdraw 10% of your income as tithing. Hunh??? Once again, I tried to explain how tithing works, how you’re not forced to pay tithing, and the church isn’t accessing people’s bank accounts. I said maybe she had gotten confused because you couldn’t enter the temple if you didn’t pay 10% of your income. She was insistent, though, that this was what the missionaries had taught her. Maybe, she said, it was just that particular congregation. No, no, I told her, the SL church controls how things are managed everywhere… by that point the conversation had to end.

I am sure she was just confused.

I want to emphasize that this is an intelligent woman who has lived in several different cultures. She is educated and has experience in several different career fields. And yet, to her, despite all the valiant attempts of the LDS church, this is what she knows about the Mormons.

Guess all those “happy, shiny, Mormon” commercials aren’t doing much good.

No wonder the LDS church feels compelled to spend millions on PR campaigns. I’m afraid that they may be wasting their money.

I disagree. Actually I have been asking a lot of non LDS what their view of the Church is. Some of these persons are my business partners and I have asked them to be candid. In every case they have said that they LDS Church is good organization, does a lot of good, its members a great people, live their faith and make good neighbors and citizens. Two have told me they admire anyone that can be do devoted to a faith that requires so much dedication and had such high standards. One commented he could never do it-he is a liberal Catholic, the other said he could not and would not want to and he is a liberal in name and heritage Jewish person.

So you get mixed results. Some people love Chevy's and other think they suck. Advertising reaches some and not others.

[_skippy the dead]

THere is no question about this. Polygamy will always be tied to Mormonism. This is why the LDS Church is SOOOOOO anti polygamy. They are the most anti polygamy organization out there. But even so they leave it intact through their practice for sealings if a wife is deceased. And the Church leaves it in the canon. So perhaps this is deserved.

I agree with you, with one addition - a man can be sealed to two living women as well. After a civil divorce, a man's prior sealing need not be canceled prior to being sealed to a second wife. Although many point out that this is not the same as two contemporaneous civil marriages (which is true), this is definitely a case of a man having current binding marriage covenants on the records of the church with two living women. Kinda polygamy-ish.

[_Jersey Girl]

Beastie,

Interesting OP! I had LDS coworkers for a number of years, going back to hmm...1976 or there abouts and forward in two states. I had many long conversations regarding Mormonism with one coworker in particular. When I moved to my current state, I had LDS friends, served LDS families professionally and also more informally in Girl Scouting. Prior to my actually investigating in earnest beginning (say 12 years ago) this is what I would have told you about LDS based on my lengthy conversations with the one coworker (who gave me my first Book of Mormon) and one friend in particular whom I grew to be very close to.

1. They have large families and are family centered.
2. They use the Book of Mormon as scripture. (I didn't know that PoGP or D&C existed.)
3. They don't believe in Hell.
4. Polygamy was part of early Mormonism. Men married multiple women who were widows in order to provide for them and their children.
5. Mormon's are Christians but they also believe the Book of Mormon is scripture.
6. Mormon's baptize by immersion at age 8.
7. Mormon's believe in Jesus and Heavenly Father.
8. Mormon's believe they existed before being born.
9. Mormon's pray in Jesus name and cross their arms in front of them when they pray.
10. Mormon's go to church in a Ward and ward's sometimes gather in Stakes.
11. Mormon's have Traveling Road Shows, celebrate Halloween, Christmas but they don't go to church on Easter.
12. Mormon's have Home/Visit Teachers.
13. Mormon's have Boy Scouts, Girl's Activity and Young Womens.
14. Mormon's hold Daddy/Daughter functions.
15. The Bishop is a Pastor.
16. Mormon's don't drink, smoke, they dress conservatively and maintain food storage for 1 year.
17. When a baby is born, a death occurs or other challenges to families, Mormon's supply food to eachother and keep meals frozen for such events.
18. LDS children attend Primary and are taught to sing "I am a Child of God" in utero. ;-)
19. Some LDS wear rings that remind them to Choose the Right (CTR).
20. LDS meet occasionally for family reunions.
21. LDS trace their family tree.

I tell you, those are all the things I really knew about Mormonism and I didn't leave out details because I didn't know more details.

As I indicated above, I received my first Book of Mormon probably in 1977 or so. When I read it, my first impression was that it was a bad imitation of the Bible.

All True.

As you can see, after investing many hours in conversation and attending events, I knew far more about LDS culture than I did it's theology or doctrine.

Jersey Girl