Plural Marriage or Polygamy?

[_RockHeaded]

So what is the actual source of the quote? When, where and to whom was this said? You have a second hand source of a second hand quote.

Can't get access to the Contributor. It's online but I can't justify paying to ask for it. I found it in my own notes as a quotation and entered it to try to find the source. Judging by where it is I think it came from something I found in my grandmother's house. Unfortunately I did not notate where I got it from.

However, my main point was to show that the early Saints called it plural marriage. In this respect, I invite people to read the Journal of Discourses.

Not once do we find in the Joseph Smiths history where he called it plural marriage, nor are there any authentic quotes where he has stated anything positive about polygamy. By authentic I mean quotes taken from Joseph Smith during his lifetime, not something that was written down several years later. When things are written down after someones death and they are not alive to dispute them they cannot be authenticated. IMHO

I'm sure this had nothing to do with the fact that he was practicing it in secret until his death, right?

Your fact and my fact are different. He wasn't practicing it in secret. Weren't there claims that he also had children from these woman, but now some that claim he practiced in secret say he didn't have sex with these woman. It's funny how the evolution of this has been going. I went back through some of my old posts on ZLMB and it was the first part of January 2004 when I first heard about the DNA testing for Joseph Smith polygamist decendants. After 4 years none, guess that is why the shift in no sex as apposed to there was. Wasn't it Eliza Snow that eluded to Joseph Smith being a 'horndog'? LOL


RockHeaded

[_Scottie]

Your fact and my fact are different. He wasn't practicing it in secret. Weren't there claims that he also had children from these woman, but now some that claim he practiced in secret say he didn't have sex with these woman. It's funny how the evolution of this has been going. I went back through some of my old posts on ZLMB and it was the first part of January 2004 when I first heard about the DNA testing for Joseph Smith polygamist decendants. After 4 years none, guess that is why the shift in no sex as apposed to there was. Wasn't it Eliza Snow that eluded to Joseph Smith being a 'horndog'? LOL

Well, certainly if Joseph Smith had sex there is no other possibility than he would impregnate his women. * rolls eyes *

And, what shift are you talking about?? Show me ONE critic who thinks that Joseph Smith didn't have sex?

[_The Nehor]

So what is the actual source of the quote? When, where and to whom was this said? You have a second hand source of a second hand quote.

Can't get access to the Contributor. It's online but I can't justify paying to ask for it. I found it in my own notes as a quotation and entered it to try to find the source. Judging by where it is I think it came from something I found in my grandmother's house. Unfortunately I did not notate where I got it from.

However, my main point was to show that the early Saints called it plural marriage. In this respect, I invite people to read the Journal of Discourses.

Fair enough. I just like to point out when folks rely on sources that rely on sources that rely on unspecific other sources. We have no context or reliability.

I agree there. I was sure I remembered where this came from but I'm drawing a blank now. The intratubes only has the one source.

[_RockHeaded]

Your fact and my fact are different. He wasn't practicing it in secret. Weren't there claims that he also had children from these woman, but now some that claim he practiced in secret say he didn't have sex with these woman. It's funny how the evolution of this has been going. I went back through some of my old posts on ZLMB and it was the first part of January 2004 when I first heard about the DNA testing for Joseph Smith polygamist decendants. After 4 years none, guess that is why the shift in no sex as apposed to there was. Wasn't it Eliza Snow that eluded to Joseph Smith being a 'horndog'? LOL

Well, certainly if Joseph Smith had sex there is no other possibility than he would impregnate his women. * rolls eyes *

And, what shift are you talking about?? Show me ONE critic who thinks that Joseph Smith didn't have sex?

You believe that Joseph Smith had sex with all these woman but none was able to get pregnant?


The shift would come from conversations with others on message boards, ZLMB would have been one where there were a few posts that people suggested Joseph was married to these woman but didn't have sex with them. The reasoning being there is no physical evidence (children) of this.

RockHeaded :evil

[_Gazelam]

Josephs calling and election were made sure, meaning that as many as he had his name sealed to , he could lay claim on in the world to come, thereby ensuring their salvation as well.

And the proper usuage is plural families.

[_harmony]

Josephs calling and election were made sure, meaning that as many as he had his name sealed to , he could lay claim on in the world to come, thereby ensuring their salvation as well.

And the proper usuage is plural families.

Again, horse manure, gaz. We don't ride into the CK on someone else's coattails, no matter who he might be. Salvation and exaltation are individual rewards and not predicated on being sealed or not sealed to any individual.

Show some foundational support for what you just posted, because I have a ton of support for my viewpoint.

[_Gazelam]

There is another quote I wanted to use, that I'll have to dig up, but for now this one will do:

Four destroying angels are holding power over the four quarters of the earth until the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads, which signifies sealing the blessing upon their heads, meaning the everlasting covenant, thereby making their calling and election sure. When a seal is put upon the father and mother, it secures their posterity so that they cannot be lost, but will be saved by virtue of the covenant of their father and mother. - Joseph Smith Jr.., DHC 5:530, August 13, 1843

I understand what you are saying Harmony. But just as Christ can lay claim to those who honored his name, those that have been declared saved before they have tasted death can lay claim to those who bear their name.

This is what Joseph sought to do in the marriages he made as he went about extending his family.

[_Boaz & Lidia]

I do not understand how such a term could exist legally. The laws of the land recognized only one marital union between one man and one woman.

All other marital unions not being recognized deemed all sexual relations within that illicit union were legally considered adultery and therefore all offspring from any sexual relations were, by definition, called bastards.

The main thing to remember is that in the eye of the public, polygamy = Mormon and Mormon = polygamy.

Thanks to the best Elders ever, Mitt and Warren, polygamy = Mormon = weird = cult = far less baptisms and more exmormons = reduced income to LDS Inc.

[Guest]

" ..When a seal is put upon the father and mother, it secures their posterity so that they cannot be lost, but will be saved by virtue of the covenant of their father and mother."

..those that have been declared saved before they have tasted death can lay claim to those who bear their name.

This is what Joseph sought to do in the marriages he made as he went about extending his family.

Gaz,

You speak of manipulation and entitlement. There is no Jesus here. There is no agency.


I've made this point before:

If Smith was all about the afterlife, why did he horn in on only young girls that he would surely have to wait for come the afterlife?

Why not a few 80 year old nearlydeads? She surely would be there to welcome him to his celestial chamber. Can I imagine Smith practicing self control after this life while waiting for his young mistresses to grow old and die? Why why why? Instead, these young women spent their lives being passed around to the next hairy old religious man - or living a lonely life because she had already been spoken for.

I could not marry a woman that was promised to some horny dead man for eternity - An investment with a guaranty where you are sure to lose everything. Think about it.

Mormon adultery seems more descriptively fitting.

It was not "technically" marriage because it has never been recognized as legally binding by any laws of the land - in fact, it was always illegal.

[_Brackite]

I've noticed many believers refer to the practice of polygamy as "plural marriage," almost as if this is a more respectable term.

While the word "polygamy" conjures up images of male power, submissive women, and King Solomon type of guys, plural marriage brings images of the FLDS which, in my opinion, are much more creepy.

Personally, the harem lifestyle (as we can see) has nothing to do with the common understanding of what is a marriage so I think it is quite a misnomer to even use the word marriage in a description of this practice.

I'm wondering if after all the media coverage of "plural marriage" if the SLC LDS church is going to come up with another word?

~dancer~

Hello Truth Dancer,

Plural Marriage and Polygamy are just different words meaning basically and virtually the exact Same thing. One man having many women as wives.

Plural Marriage = Polygamy = Abomination = Whoredom.

Jacob 2:

[24] Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

[28] For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.