FLDS - 31 of 53 girls pregnant and/or with children

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_asbestosman
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Post by _asbestosman »

beastie wrote:Do people who support religious freedom believe that freedom should extend to a practice that institutionalizes statutory rape?

Freedom of religion does not and should NOT extend to breaking the law (except perhaps with respect to some drugs). Should it extend to teaching people to break the law? Well, that's a trickier question. I think it's fine to teach kids that the law is wrong. I don't think it's fine to teach them to break the law, but I'm not sure if that should be illegal (should it depend on the law like maybe freeing a slave?). I think telling adults to practice civil disobediance should be protected free speech (although they should be willing to suffer the consequences for disobeying).

In any case no, I do not think religious freedom extends to allowing for illegal actions (save perhaps making exceptions for some drugs).

Is a 14 year old capable of making that decision?

No, and neither is an 18 year old, but we gotta draw the line somewhere and I guess 18 is at least better than 14. Twenty-five would probably be better as far as brain development goes.

Do I think privacy should exist knowing that many crimanls hide behind that and knowing that many children are hurt because of privacy laws? Well, yeah I do. I'm certainly willing to work on some compromises like mandatory registration of all births including the age of the mother and father (especially when they were milking the welfare system). I'm willing to make it difficult for criminals to hide crimes behind privacy.

As crazy as it may seem, I think due process exists to protect the innocent, not the guilty. It's just unfortunate that many of the guilty get away because of it. Even when we know someone is guilty as sin, we're still supposed to stay legal for our own protection.


Now here's the thing for me. Even if the evidence was improperly gathered (and maybe it wasn't, but I have my doubts), I don't feel right sending children back into what we know is an abusive situation. But if it was improperly gathered, I still think that needs to be addressed and those who did it improperly should be punished. What would be wrong would be to punish the children for that by sending them back to be abused.
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_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

I agree with you, abman.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

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_Gazelam
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Post by _Gazelam »

Mercury wrote:
Gazelam wrote:Its really reaching to compare Joseph Smith with Warren Jeffs. Really really reaching.



What?!

You have to be kidding. Gaz, Warren Jeffs is practically Joe reincarnated. If you do not see this it is because you refuse to see the reality in front of you.


There is no comparison here Merc. They are two competely diffeent people. They had two completely different leadership styles.

Compare the fruits.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_KimberlyAnn
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Post by _KimberlyAnn »

Gazelam wrote:
Mercury wrote:
Gazelam wrote:Its really reaching to compare Joseph Smith with Warren Jeffs. Really really reaching.



What?!

You have to be kidding. Gaz, Warren Jeffs is practically Joe reincarnated. If you do not see this it is because you refuse to see the reality in front of you.


There is no comparison here Merc. They are two competely diffeent people. They had two completely different leadership styles.

Compare the fruits.


The FLDS are the fruits of Smith!

KA
_Gazelam
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Post by _Gazelam »

Kim,

The FLDS are the fruits of Smith!


They left the vineyard
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

KimberlyAnn wrote:The FLDS are the fruits of Smith!

KA


In the same way Stalin is the fruit of Marx or Pope Julius III is the fruit of Peter.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_truth dancer
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Post by _truth dancer »

The FLDS believe THEY are the true followers of Joseph Smith, and with good reason.

Their beliefs and lifestyle are much more similar to the church of Joseph Smith than is the mainstream LDS church.

Joseph Smith would not even recognize the modern day LDS church, in my opinion.

Also, Gaz, Joseph Smith did indeed encourage education and thinking, just so long as no one disagreed with him. Kind of like Jeffs. :-(

Think about the women who declined his advances or the men who were sent away on missions, or Xed because they disagreed with Joseph Smith.

~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_Inconceivable
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Post by _Inconceivable »

truth dancer wrote:The FLDS believe THEY are the true followers of Joseph Smith, and with good reason.

Their beliefs and lifestyle are much more similar to the church of Joseph Smith than is the mainstream LDS church.

Joseph Smith would not even recognize the modern day LDS church, in my opinion.

Also, Gaz, Joseph Smith did indeed encourage education and thinking, just so long as no one disagreed with him. Kind of like Jeffs. :-(

Think about the women who declined his advances or the men who were sent away on missions, or Xed because they disagreed with Joseph Smith.

~dancer~


My sentiments exactly.

So far as fruits go, I don't see Smith as the tree from which Jeffs fell, I see him as a fruit as well.

The fruit didn't fall far from the other fruit.

This is a great time to add this once again:

27 And wo unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord! And their works are in the dark; and they say: Who seeth us, and who knoweth us? And they also say: Surely, your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay. But behold, I will show unto them, saith the Lord of Hosts, that I know all their works. For shall the work say of him that made it, he made me not? Or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, he had no understanding?

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 27:27)
_Scottie
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Post by _Scottie »

Gazelam wrote:Kim,

The FLDS are the fruits of Smith!


They left the vineyard


I would dare say the LDS left the vinyard.

The FLDS have been the ones bold enough to stand fast and do God's will, even against all of Satan's raging and trying to destroy the church!

The LDS are the ones that have succumbed to the demands of men.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

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_Trevor
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Post by _Trevor »

Scottie wrote:I would dare say the LDS left the vinyard.

The FLDS have been the ones bold enough to stand fast and do God's will, even against all of Satan's raging and trying to destroy the church!

The LDS are the ones that have succumbed to the demands of men.


It is an argument that bears some weight.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
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