Mormon Church, wrong again re masturbation

Post by **_beastie** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:21 pm

Wait, is the damage caused by an increased risk in prostate cancer or by mental stress? I didn't see anything in the study about mental health.

Anyhow, I do have a couple questions about the study. How early do you need to start in order to see benefits of a decreased risk--when you first hit puberty or can you wait until you're about 40 (I assume that prostate cancer tends to develop later in life). Also, why would frequent flushing of the prostate help decrease risk by flushing out carcinogens as I would think it would be just as likely to let more enter in the first place? I think more study would need to be done.

I didn't say the study talked about mental health. Those are the conclusions I've drawn after years of seeing BIC Mormons and exmormons discussing this issue. I have known people who were seriously depressed and disturbed as teens because they couldn't stop masturbating, no matter how much they want to. I have known one exmormon couple who, when they were active, had a son who considered suicide partly due to dismay this issue created in his life. I do not believe you should minimize the possible impact this has on the mental health of young people in the church.

I agree more study should be done. (not sure why you think that masturbation would be just as likely to let more carcinogens enter, though)

Post by **_beastie** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:24 pm

Do you really think a lot of youth spend copious amounts of time fixated on masturbation to the point that they can't think about anything else?

I think lots of youths (particularly males) spend copious amounts of time fixated, or trying not to be fixated, on SEX. It's only the LDS ones who end up obsessing about masturbation as well.

And yes, I think that decreases their ability to skeptically evaluate what they're being indoctrinated with. They're too busy feeling badly about themselves for being such weak sinners.

Post by **_Trevor** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:58 pm

beastie wrote:I think lots of youths (particularly males) spend copious amounts of time fixated, or trying not to be fixated, on SEX. It's only the LDS ones who end up obsessing about masturbation as well.

And yes, I think that decreases their ability to skeptically evaluate what they're being indoctrinated with. They're too busy feeling badly about themselves for being such weak sinners.

I think it is true that the more a person connects strong emotions with certain ideas and practices, the more they will be invested in these ideas and practices and find them meaningful. The people who connect their personal emotions with alien abduction, by using the latter as a kind of hermeneutic for explaining the former, can convince themselves that they were, in fact, abducted by aliens... that the whole thing is real because they experienced it.

Post by **_Trevor** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:02 pm

There is a brilliant bit in the South Park episode on Mormonism in which Joseph Smith dodges the fact that he can't precisely retranslate what he made up by claiming that God is very angry with him for giving Martin Harris the manuscript. Martin replies, "if God is angry with you, you must be telling the truth."

Martin, having emotionally involved himself in the drama of Joseph Smith's claims about his communication with God, totally misses that this is a dodge. His experience of the projected emotion of God's anger makes the experience real to him.

I am not saying that this is exactly what happened in Mormon history, but I do think it is a brilliant insight on the part of the South Park writers.

So, how does this relate to the issue of masturbation? I think it relates in that those who become emotionally invested in the fantastical relationship with a made-up God really do think that this emotional experience constitutes evidence of the reality. Perhaps unconsciously religion adopts this strategy to make the experience of its propositions and practices more real to the believer. If I can get you to feel good when you pray about the Book of Mormon, then you have evidence that God is real and the Book of Mormon is true. When, in fact, there is exactly no necessary, logical relationship between these things. If you are made to feel ashamed of masturbation, and then you are handed the interpretation that you feel bad because you sinned and God is aware of that fact, then this reinforces the sense that all of it is real.

Post by **_asbestosman** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:52 pm

beastie wrote:I agree more study should be done. (not sure why you think that masturbation would be just as likely to let more carcinogens enter, though)

The longer you let a faucet run, the more chance you have of various impurities entering it because more stuff is flowing through. It's like the more times you spin the roulette wheel the greater your chances are that 00 will come up.

Post by **_asbestosman** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:58 pm

beastie wrote:I have known one exmormon couple who, when they were active, had a son who considered suicide partly due to dismay this issue created in his life. I do not believe you should minimize the possible impact this has on the mental health of young people in the church.

Perhaps, then that is an issue that needs to be addressed. Would it have helped the kid to know how common it is? Whose responsibility would it be to convey this information--the parents, or the church? for what it's worth, I had many bishops tell their wards that it was a common problem. I even had my mission president say that. I think it might help when people know they're not the only ones.

Post by **_Roger Morrison** » Thu May 01, 2008 3:22 am

Thanks for the "Findings". Doc says my prostrate's in great shape for 75. Question comes to mind: Is it safe now to drop back to 5 a week?? Roger

Post by **_Sethbag** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:06 am

Roger Morrison wrote:Thanks for the "Findings". Doc says my prostrate's in great shape for 75. Question comes to mind: Is it safe now to drop back to 5 a week?? Roger

If you've really done this well so far, why stop now? ;-)

Post by **_ludwigm** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:19 am

As I am only 63, do You think it is not too late to start it?

Post by **_Roger Morrison** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:36 pm

Seth, you doubt me? I'm crushed :-( Lud, as my boat is named, "Y - NOT ?" :-)

Seriously, of course LDSism is wrong on the practice of masturbation; as they are on other issues. Soooooooo much LDS stuff stems from the Victorian past. Just the way IT is. To suffer in it is a choice that everyone is free to make.

It would be an interesting study: Are there more prostrate problems in the LDS church, per capita, than in society generally? Compared to other churches?

Many decades ago, when a prostrate operation was modestly refered to as "a man's problem" there was little, if any, connection made to male ejaculation in the minds of the generally ignorant public; me being one. It was not until reaching the age where a protrate exam was suggested by my MD, and understanding the prostrate's function did i apply the addage that refers to our 'muscles' in general--"use it or lose it." Like, "WOW!"

I then began to recall those who had "that operation"... Their public personas, their spouses, and their wall-floweredness at parties, and yeah, I passed judgement. OTOH (no pun intended:-) those who were operation-free were of a much different profile...

Brings to mind a limerick of my adolesent junior-high days, "When i was young, and in my prime, i used to do IT all the time. Now, that I am old and gray, I only do IT twice a day."

The most happily married guy i know, maturbation is far in my past, yet recalled without a twinge of guilt. A male might just as well be ashamed of sprouting whiskers, IMSCO. Another reason i cast a discenting vote on April the 5th. The LDS church is not inspired through a prophet of "God" but by men carrying their own baggage... Enjoy the day. Think, "...have i done any good in the world today..." There are none after death. It's now or never... Warm regards, Roger