A few days ago I was told, on this board, that I was probably held back in the pre-existence. I surmised this wasn't something that one would wish for...
I saw another poster mention being "valiant" in the pre-existence.
So, what's going on in the pre-existence that gives some the "valiant" title and where others are "held back"? Are these the spirits? So, how can a spirit be valiant? Or if they're held back (I'm assuming they're naughty -- not quite uber special???) why is this so? I thought the spirits (according to abman) didn't really have any traits until they were meshed with their human host on earth and then took on their qualities.
I'm so confused. Again!
Well, you know exactly what constitutes LDS doctrine so the real question is...Is there any doctrine on valiancy in the pre-mortal existence and how it might affect your mortal life?
Off the top of my head, I can think of two legitimate verse sets....D&C 138:53-55/Abraham 3:22-23 and possibly Ether 12:27. Also one that may or may not be an actual reference on the subject....John 9:2 which is a question not directly answered by Christ.
However, I can't think of anything like what you are referring to in the scriptures or an official publication/lesson manual. Have you searched?
Sethbag wrote:I have half a mind to send you my name and phone number, and email address, just so that when you finally do, you'll have at least one person you can turn to who will understand what you're going through.
What about Jason Bourne?
He's already on the way out, whether he knows it or not. So are you. ;-) I propose that in five years we all get together at my place and swap atrocity tales and whatnot. We'll invite Juliann to come hear them. ;-)
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
The Book of Abraham is one of the greatest witnesses to Jospeh Smiths prophetic callings that we have ! If you ever bothered to read anything besides the rantings of the peanut gallery youd know this. He gets so many things right in every chapter of that book, its impossible for him to have faked it !
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
Again, let's get the actual orthodox doctrine correct for a change. There is no such doctrine or principle as the concept of "fence sitters" in LDS doctrine. There were no neutrals in Heaven. One was either for or against Christ and the Plan of Salvation. There were different degrees of "valiance", yes, and faith, focus, and progression upon one's own development up to that point, and the decision to be made. but no neutrals. Scratch and Coca Cola are telling tall tales regarding LDS beliefs here, and should be duely noted. Scratch had none to begin with, and Cola's has now jumped the tracks as well.
This is LDS folk doctrine, not anything substantive (and it conflicts directly with the official teachings of the Church and with the our scriptures).
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.
The Book of Abraham is one of the greatest witnesses to Jospeh Smiths prophetic callings that we have ! If you ever bothered to read anything besides the rantings of the peanut gallery you'd know this. He gets so many things right in every chapter of that book, its impossible for him to have faked it !
Its no accident Gaz, that the deeper and more profound the doctrine becomes, the more hostile and disdainful is the response from those offended and disoriented by it.
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.
Coggins7 wrote:Again, let's get the actual orthodox doctrine correct for a change. There is no such doctrine or principle as the concept of "fence sitters" in LDS doctrine. There were no neutrals in Heaven. One was either for or against Christ and the Plan of Salvation. There were different degrees of "valiance", yes, and faith, focus, and progression upon one's own development up to that point, and the decision to be made. but no neutrals. Scratch and Coca Cola are telling tall tales regarding LDS beliefs here, and should be duely noted. Scratch had none to begin with, and Cola's has now jumped the tracks as well.
This is LDS folk doctrine, not anything substantive (and it conflicts directly with the official teachings of the Church and with the our scriptures).
I have frequently seen the argument amongst apologists that "the members are the Church." Thus, whatever the members believe and teach really have to be regarded as "doctrine." (At least by that logic.)
I have frequently seen the argument amongst apologists that "the members are the Church." Thus, whatever the members believe and teach really have to be regarded as "doctrine." (At least by that logic.)
Not only is this a non sequitur, it's completely incongruent with settled Church teachings regarding the nature and features of "official" LDS doctrine.
Scratch, you are an intellectual version of an accident prone personality.
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.
The Book of Abraham is one of the greatest witnesses to Jospeh Smiths prophetic callings that we have ! If you ever bothered to read anything besides the rantings of the peanut gallery you'd know this. He gets so many things right in every chapter of that book, its impossible for him to have faked it !
It is an embarrassment to the church. I await the day it is kicked to the curb where it belongs (along with Sex 132).
I have frequently seen the argument amongst apologists that "the members are the Church." Thus, whatever the members believe and teach really have to be regarded as "doctrine." (At least by that logic.)
Not only is this a non sequitur, it's completely incongruent with settled Church teachings regarding the nature and features of "official" LDS doctrine.
Scratch, you are an intellectual version of an accident prone personality.
Uh, yeah. Anyways, the belief that Blacks were "cursed" with dark skin due to their neutrality in the pre-existence is enshrined in some early works of LDS apologetics. Cf., for example, John Lund's The Church and the Negro.
The Book of Abraham is one of the greatest witnesses to Jospeh Smiths prophetic callings that we have ! If you ever bothered to read anything besides the rantings of the peanut gallery you'd know this. He gets so many things right in every chapter of that book, its impossible for him to have faked it !
It is an embarrassment to the church. I await the day it is kicked to the curb where it belongs (along with Sex 132).
You are an embarrassment to the Church Harmony, as well as to yourself. Once you are finally exposed to the members of your Ward, Stake, and leaders for who and what you really are (which, without repentance, one way or another, will eventually happen) you will no doubt find this out for yourself.
Try to enjoy the daylight.
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.