American Idol for Gods

[_Trevor]

"Trevor! Treeeeeeeeevor! Time to come home, its a school night..."

Dear Lord, tell me that Coggins7 is not my dad! If you do so, I promise I will believe in you again (fingers crossed and everything)!

[_Trevor]

Oh, my mistake, its Friday, which means you can stay up late and watch Sponge Bob and Shop Erotic as long as you keep the sound down...

Gee, can I dad? You're so cool. And here I thought you were an uptight fascist with an IQ of 70! Well, I guess you can still be cool every once in a while, even if you are all of those things.

[_Moniker]

I don't even know what Shop Erotic is...

Coggins is a perv! Coggins is a perv!

[_Jason Bourne]

The "Plan" is really just a pretense. God knows who will end up where. There is no need for a "test".

The church has always (as far as I know), taught there are a few chosen, special spirits who will return to inherit the CKHL.

Nothing about good, kind, loving people... just the ones God wants back.

The plan has nothing to do with goodness or love... I mean seriously we are talking about a God/man who cast out 1/3 of His spirit children right off the bat. The rest, well, with the exception of the chosen few, will end up without their families, without loved ones, without God.

Nope, not a plan of love.

:-(

~dancer~

I must say that the interpretation, spin and alleged understanding of LDS doctrine is utterly astounding. Never in all my years as a Mormon have I been able to come to such a dismal conclusion. This may be your view but it is not that of most believing Mormons.

God knows who will end up where. There is no need for a "test".

This is actually debatable philosophical proposition that is not settled or concluded upon.

Nothing about good, kind, loving people... just the ones God wants back.

Hardly. The LDS gospel calls us to higher living and discipleship that includes love.

The church has always (as far as I know), taught there are a few chosen, special spirits who will return to inherit the CKHL.

And you arrive to this conclusion exactly how?

[_The Nehor]

The Plan of Salvation as put forth by Mormonism is essentially a eugenics program. It doesn't seem to have much to do with love. It's like natural selection taken to the Nth degree. It's a competition where faith in the supernatural is the ideal and selected trait.

It's American Idol - the Kolob edition. We all line up before Elohim (Simon), Jehovah (Paula),the Holy Ghost (Randy) and Joseph Smith ( as Ryan Seacrest) and audition to get on the stage called Earth. In the end, an infinitesimally small group of people will get contracts to be worshipped as Idols in the eternities.

Its not about god loving his children, its about god looking for the select few who've got the goods, who can perform. In reality the god of Mormonism is not looking to love his children, he is looking to further build his elite super-race.

Sound familiar?

Out of all the "authorized" (dunked, endowed, sealed and endured) people of God, how many will cut the mustard as a percentage of all the people who have and will ever live when the, ostensible, judgment is performed--an extremely small percentage to be sure.

Mormonism is not "the plan of happiness." It is the plan of a callous eugenicist.

A eugenics program that involves finding those willing to develop pure love and exalting them to where they can dwell and share their happiness with each other forever. I don't understand why so many fixate on the concept of godhood as if it's some prize to be worshipped. The prize is the culture they will create. One where ego is subsumed into a whole. A place where every success is rejoiced for by all as if all had done it. There will be no need for envy in such a place. Where every tear will be wiped away and all will be utterly fulfilled. A place in heaven custom-made for you because you were also made for it. A place where guilt, misery, and woe can't be found. This is the society of the Gods.

How many will cut the mustard? In this I agree with C.S. Lewis in that all who seek for true happiness will find it. Most people don't. I don't far too often.

[_Coggins7]

I don't even know what Shop Erotic is...

Coggins is a perv! Coggins is a perv!

Hmmm, I thought you, of all people...

[_Mister Scratch]

I'm still interested in hearing Coggins's explanation as to how such practices as the 2nd Anointing square with other doctrinal principles, as per the OP, and how and whether the 2nd Anointing is indicative of a doctrinal contradiction.

[_amantha]

The Plan of Salvation as put forth by Mormonism is essentially a eugenics program. It doesn't seem to have much to do with love. It's like natural selection taken to the Nth degree. It's a competition where faith in the supernatural is the ideal and selected trait.

It's American Idol - the Kolob edition. We all line up before Elohim (Simon), Jehovah (Paula),the Holy Ghost (Randy) and Joseph Smith ( as Ryan Seacrest) and audition to get on the stage called Earth. In the end, an infinitesimally small group of people will get contracts to be worshipped as Idols in the eternities.

Its not about god loving his children, its about god looking for the select few who've got the goods, who can perform. In reality the god of Mormonism is not looking to love his children, he is looking to further build his elite super-race.

Sound familiar?

Out of all the "authorized" (dunked, endowed, sealed and endured) people of God, how many will cut the mustard as a percentage of all the people who have and will ever live when the, ostensible, judgment is performed--an extremely small percentage to be sure.

Mormonism is not "the plan of happiness." It is the plan of a callous eugenicist.

A eugenics program that involves finding those willing to develop pure love and exalting them to where they can dwell and share their happiness with each other forever. I don't understand why so many fixate on the concept of godhood as if it's some prize to be worshipped. The prize is the culture they will create. One where ego is subsumed into a whole. A place where every success is rejoiced for by all as if all had done it. There will be no need for envy in such a place. Where every tear will be wiped away and all will be utterly fulfilled. A place in heaven custom-made for you because you were also made for it. A place where guilt, misery, and woe can't be found. This is the society of the Gods.

How many will cut the mustard? In this I agree with C.S. Lewis in that all who seek for true happiness will find it. Most people don't. I don't far too often.

We at least agree that it is a eugenics program. What we don't agree upon is the notion that pure love and the sharing of happiness can only be truly had under the auspices of the Mormon god's eugenics program. No. Certainly not. What arrogance. Good and loving people abound everywhere. The happiness you describe has nothing to do with the Mormon elitist "plan of salvation."

As we can clearly discern in the examples of the polygamous affairs of the lecherous Jo Smith and the equally nefarious FLDS, there is plenty of guilt, misery and woe to be found in these earthly models of the Mormon god's ideal heaven.

I agree with you again in that fixation on "godhood" in wholly unnecessary. Happiness is not to be found in such hallucinations but in the realization that heaven is a state of mind.

[_Mister Scratch]

The Plan of Salvation as put forth by Mormonism is essentially a eugenics program. It doesn't seem to have much to do with love. It's like natural selection taken to the Nth degree. It's a competition where faith in the supernatural is the ideal and selected trait.

It's American Idol - the Kolob edition. We all line up before Elohim (Simon), Jehovah (Paula),the Holy Ghost (Randy) and Joseph Smith ( as Ryan Seacrest) and audition to get on the stage called Earth. In the end, an infinitesimally small group of people will get contracts to be worshipped as Idols in the eternities.

Its not about god loving his children, its about god looking for the select few who've got the goods, who can perform. In reality the god of Mormonism is not looking to love his children, he is looking to further build his elite super-race.

Sound familiar?

Out of all the "authorized" (dunked, endowed, sealed and endured) people of God, how many will cut the mustard as a percentage of all the people who have and will ever live when the, ostensible, judgment is performed--an extremely small percentage to be sure.

Mormonism is not "the plan of happiness." It is the plan of a callous eugenicist.

A eugenics program that involves finding those willing to develop pure love and exalting them to where they can dwell and share their happiness with each other forever. I don't understand why so many fixate on the concept of godhood as if it's some prize to be worshipped. The prize is the culture they will create. One where ego is subsumed into a whole. A place where every success is rejoiced for by all as if all had done it. There will be no need for envy in such a place. Where every tear will be wiped away and all will be utterly fulfilled. A place in heaven custom-made for you because you were also made for it. A place where guilt, misery, and woe can't be found. This is the society of the Gods.

How many will cut the mustard? In this I agree with C.S. Lewis in that all who seek for true happiness will find it. Most people don't. I don't far too often.

We at least agree that it is a eugenics program. What we don't agree upon is the notion that pure love and the sharing of happiness can only be truly had under the auspices of the Mormon god's eugenics program. No. Certainly not. What arrogance. Good and loving people abound everywhere. The happiness you describe has nothing to do with the Mormon elitist "plan of salvation."

As we can clearly discern in the examples of the polygamous affairs of the lecherous Jo Smith and the equally nefarious FLDS, there is plenty of guilt, misery and woe to be found in these earthly models of the Mormon god's ideal heaven.

I agree with you again in that fixation on "godhood" in wholly unnecessary. Happiness is not to be found in such hallucinations but in the realization that heaven is a state of mind.

The very existence of the 2nd Anointing ceremony blows The Nehor's argument out of the water. We know from anecdotal accounts that the granting of the 2nd Anointing is based upon nepotism and utter loyalty to the Church.

[_truth dancer]

The "Plan" is really just a pretense. God knows who will end up where. There is no need for a "test".

The church has always (as far as I know), taught there are a few chosen, special spirits who will return to inherit the CKHL.

Nothing about good, kind, loving people... just the ones God wants back.

The plan has nothing to do with goodness or love... I mean seriously we are talking about a God/man who cast out 1/3 of His spirit children right off the bat. The rest, well, with the exception of the chosen few, will end up without their families, without loved ones, without God.

Nope, not a plan of love.

:-(

~dancer~

I must say that the interpretation, spin and alleged understanding of LDS doctrine is utterly astounding. Never in all my years as a Mormon have I been able to come to such a dismal conclusion. This may be your view but it is not that of most believing Mormons.

God knows who will end up where. There is no need for a "test".

This is actually debatable philosophical proposition that is not settled or concluded upon.

Nothing about good, kind, loving people... just the ones God wants back.

Hardly. The LDS gospel calls us to higher living and discipleship that includes love.

The church has always (as far as I know), taught there are a few chosen, special spirits who will return to inherit the CKHL.

And you arrive to this conclusion exactly how?

I understand many believers think the plan is a wonderful thing. I do not. Since I was a child and realized that my family was obviously not one of the chosen (my dad is agnostic and obviously my parents were not sealed, hence I would be without loved ones or family in the CKHL). (Do you need me to explain how hard it was as an adult knowing my mother would not be with my father in heaven)? (Just to be clear, I was taught that I was one of the chosen because I accepted the gospel... my mother and sibs also joined after me still, we would not be together in heaven). While many believers seem to take comfort in the idea that they ARE indeed the chosen, it never, EVER felt like a holy thing... the elitism NEVER felt right in my heart. NEVER.

If I recall correctly Jason, you stated at one time, that the only way you could imagine heaven being a great place without loved ones was if you forgot your loved ones even existed. And you think this is a God of love? :-(

Jason, please tell me how a plan that separates families, children, and parents from each other for eternity if they do not believe in Joseph Smith is a plan of love? Really. Please tell me how a God that can send 1/3 of his children into outer darkness is one of love? Please tell me how a God that gives this sort of twisted, contorted, test is a God of love?

In spite of how others view God, the idea that He along with his multiple "wives" could cast out 1/3 of his spirit children NEVER felt like a loving thing. I understand believers think these spirits were horrible, Satanic spirits, still, it never felt right. What sort of God does such a thing to his children?

Jason, does or does not the church teach there are a chosen group of people who will inherit the CKHL or receive exaltation? I don't know about you but I don't have "chosen" children, nor would I send a few to outer darkness, nor would I create a plan where I would never see some of my children again. Nope, I don't think the plan is loving.

Do you think God really needed to test people to see who those chosen people are? or who will pass the test? I mean seriously Jason we are talking about the God of the Universe here. While YOU may not hold to the "test" philosophy, many believers do and it is certainly taught in the church as truth.

I'm not saying the LDS church doesn't want people to be loving. Of course they do (for the most part). But the Plan of Salvation, in my opinion, is not about love at all.


~dancer~