A "Female Problem"?

[_Mister Scratch]

I saw mention of this on the MADboard (thanks juliann!) but was also given a link via a PM from one of my "spies":

http://whatwomenknow.org/

This website is a kind of petition assembled by progressive LDS women. (It comes in the wake of a talk by Julie Beck which urged LDS females to shoehorn themselves into stereotypical, June Cleaver-esque roles.) Basically, the website contains a series of bullet points which would seem to chafe against the Beck talk. What seems most striking about the site, however, is the list of women who have signed on to this point of view. I cannot help but wonder if they are taking a very big risk vis-a-vis Church discipline. At the very least, I would think, each of these women now has a dossier at the SCMC. It will be interesting to see if the Brethren take any measure to "stem the tide."

[_Coggins7]

This website is a kind of petition assembled by progressive LDS women.

Ie., leftist. Let's be clear in our use of language Scratch.

(It comes in the wake of a talk by Julie Beck which urged LDS females to shoehorn themselves into stereotypical, June Cleaver-esque roles.)

No such role, of course, exists.

Basically, the website contains a series of bullet points which would seem to chafe against the Beck talk. What seems most striking about the site, however, is the list of women who have signed on to this point of view. I cannot help but wonder if they are taking a very big risk vis-a-vis Church discipline. At the very least, I would think, each of these women now has a dossier at the SCMC. It will be interesting to see if the Brethren take any measure to "stem the tide."

Need I point out again how it never lets up here? Paranoia, fantasies of persecution, and always the poor, oppressed secular liberals battling valiantly against the forces of Mormon extensions of power.

And the beat goes on...

[_harmony]

I saw mention of this on the MADboard (thanks juliann!) but was also given a link via a PM from one of my "spies":

http://whatwomenknow.org/

This website is a kind of petition assembled by progressive LDS women. (It comes in the wake of a talk by Julie Beck which urged LDS females to shoehorn themselves into stereotypical, June Cleaver-esque roles.) Basically, the website contains a series of bullet points which would seem to chafe against the Beck talk. What seems most striking about the site, however, is the list of women who have signed on to this point of view. I cannot help but wonder if they are taking a very big risk vis-a-vis Church discipline. At the very least, I would think, each of these women now has a dossier at the SCMC. It will be interesting to see if the Brethren take any measure to "stem the tide."

I see some familiar names there, including one that's very familiar.

[_Jason Bourne]

This has been up and running almost since Sister Beck gave her talk last October.

[_solomarineris]

Need I point out again how it never lets up here? Paranoia, fantasies of persecution, and always the poor, oppressed secular liberals battling valiantly against the forces of Mormon extensions of power.

And the beat goes on...

Yea, the beat is going on....The women in LDS CHURCH are treated as; subservient, inferior, second class, sex object, incubators...You name it....
You wanna dispute it?
Then show me how many of them show up in pulpit in Grosskreutz's as compared to Penishoods?

OTOH, I am blessed to have a female boss, my business grows 10% a month. I just love women. They are much smarter than men for sure.

[_Boaz & Lidia]

Opps! I thought this was thread about Nehor.

[_moksha]

Bond has posted this before, but it bears repeating:

Women know your limits

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjxY9rZwNGU

[_ajax18]

I saw mention of this on the MADboard (thanks juliann!) but was also given a link via a PM from one of my "spies":

http://whatwomenknow.org/

This website is a kind of petition assembled by progressive LDS women. (It comes in the wake of a talk by Julie Beck which urged LDS females to shoehorn themselves into stereotypical, June Cleaver-esque roles.) Basically, the website contains a series of bullet points which would seem to chafe against the Beck talk. What seems most striking about the site, however, is the list of women who have signed on to this point of view. I cannot help but wonder if they are taking a very big risk vis-a-vis Church discipline. At the very least, I would think, each of these women now has a dossier at the SCMC. It will be interesting to see if the Brethren take any measure to "stem the tide."

Maybe someday you'll get your wish Mr. Scratch and can live in a world controlled by people like Susan Estrich. While that does seem where it's headed, I for one am not looking forward to it.

[_ajax18]

Housework is something that grownups do and that children learn by example and instruction. Unfortunately, women and girls still perform the bulk of the world's low-paid and unpaid labor, including housework—often at the expense of their own education, leadership, creativity, health, and well-being. Men and boys who share care-work and household responsibilities make it possible for all family members to live happier, more fulfilling lives

Maybe I'm just from a different Mormon situation but I know this sure wasn't true in my family and for that matter where I grew up. Boys had to do the chores girls were too weak to do, and we also had to share the chores everyone could do. Bottom line, we were doing 3/4 of the work around the house. We also were pushed to take on more challenging careers for the purpose of making money, not self fullfillment.

Effective parenting is a learned behavior, and, as parents, we learn and grow with each child. Children come with their own gifts, challenges, and freedom of choice. We reject teachings that encourage women to shoulder ultimate responsibility for every aspect of child-rearing and family life, and to take on shame and guilt when things do not go according to plan.

#1 We blame parents and teachers far too much for how children behave. #2 I sure don't see this blame coming from the men in the Church. It seems more likely that it comes from other women making judgments on people like this.

The choice to have children does not rule out other avenues of influence and power.

There is our old feminist theme again. Power. They're in love with it. It seems like this lust for power comes before any other objective the feminists may have. They already control the marital relationship. Now they want complete control of the workplace. The obvious contrast to this and a Christlike attitude should be obvious. The feminist kingdom truly is of this world and not the next. For them, justice must be satisfied now, or it never will be. Hail Hillary. Hopefully all neutered men can enjoy devoted to her and only her happiness.

When it comes to employment, most women prefer the luxury of choice to the limitations of necessity.

Well wouldn't everybody love to have the choice to go to work or not. Maybe he wants to be with his kids rather than at work. Why do they deserve that luxury and not men? Oh, I forgot, they have the power, and might is right in this world.

Partnership is illusory without equal decision-making power.

That's exactly right, and men do not have equal decision making power. The girl always has the upper hand in the relationship. Women don't realize what power they have. Or maybe they do and they're just that greedy.

We claim the life-affirming powers of spirit and wisdom, and reject the glorification of violence in all its forms.

Right, but it's perfectly ok to mistreat people in a passive aggressive manner as long as it's nonviolent. Maybe the real problem isn't violence, but the way we treat people in the first place? I personally would prefer a society with occasional violence to a constant litigious society dominated by legal bullies and constant verbal attacks and emotional unrest.

I think men have an advantage growing up. We mistreat each other with words, then we pound each other. After a good fight, we learn to treat each other with a little more respect. Sometimes I think girls never learn this and that's why I can't stand working with women. It's a constant passive aggressive quest for power and usually it's women vs. other women. They force you into taking sides and if you're the peon entry level man with a horny older man at the very top who tolerates it in the quest for a piece of ass, you're in for a real treat.

[_truth dancer]

Housework is something that grownups do and that children learn by example and instruction. Unfortunately, women and girls still perform the bulk of the world's low-paid and unpaid labor, including housework—often at the expense of their own education, leadership, creativity, health, and well-being. Men and boys who share care-work and household responsibilities make it possible for all family members to live happier, more fulfilling lives

Maybe I'm just from a different Mormon situation but I know this sure wasn't true in my family and for that matter where I grew up. Boys had to do the chores girls were too weak to do, and we also had to share the chores everyone could do. Bottom line, we were doing 3/4 of the work around the house. We also were pushed to take on more challenging careers for the purpose of making money, not self fullfillment.

Effective parenting is a learned behavior, and, as parents, we learn and grow with each child. Children come with their own gifts, challenges, and freedom of choice. We reject teachings that encourage women to shoulder ultimate responsibility for every aspect of child-rearing and family life, and to take on shame and guilt when things do not go according to plan.

#1 We blame parents and teachers far too much for how children behave. #2 I sure don't see this blame coming from the men in the Church. It seems more likely that it comes from other women making judgments on people like this.

The choice to have children does not rule out other avenues of influence and power.

There is our old feminist theme again. Power. They're in love with it. It seems like this lust for power comes before any other objective the feminists may have. They already control the marital relationship. Now they want complete control of the workplace. The obvious contrast to this and a Christlike attitude should be obvious. The feminist kingdom truly is of this world and not the next. For them, justice must be satisfied now, or it never will be. Hail Hillary. Hopefully all neutered men can enjoy devoted to her and only her happiness.

When it comes to employment, most women prefer the luxury of choice to the limitations of necessity.

Well wouldn't everybody love to have the choice to go to work or not. Maybe he wants to be with his kids rather than at work. Why do they deserve that luxury and not men? Oh, I forgot, they have the power, and might is right in this world.

Partnership is illusory without equal decision-making power.

That's exactly right, and men do not have equal decision making power. The girl always has the upper hand in the relationship. Women don't realize what power they have. Or maybe they do and they're just that greedy.

We claim the life-affirming powers of spirit and wisdom, and reject the glorification of violence in all its forms.

Right, but it's perfectly ok to mistreat people in a passive aggressive manner as long as it's nonviolent. Maybe the real problem isn't violence, but the way we treat people in the first place? I personally would prefer a society with occasional violence to a constant litigious society dominated by legal bullies and constant verbal attacks and emotional unrest.

Bold mine.

Hey Ajax,

I don't even know where to begin in response to your post.

You think women have a lust for power? Are you kidding? For five thousand years women were owned by men... men ruled everything. EVERYTHING. You think women wanting the vote, wanting to be protected from abuse, wanting to be paid equally as men, wanting to be educated or employed in their choice of career, or treated as a full human being is somehow a "lust for power?" Wow! You do know that until 1990, sealing in the LDS temple included a woman covenanting to "obey" her husband right? Who is it who has a lust for power?

I have no idea why you think women (not girls), control the marriage relationship. This is just serious nonsense. It wasn't until the last few decades a woman even owned her own body in our Country. For most of the history of humankind, women couldn't be educated, own property, participate in government, religious leadership, the arts, businesses, law or in community. In much of the world they still can't.

What you see as power hungry women (not girls) is a desire for women to have a voice, to participate in society without being either made invisible or exploited as a sexual object.

Let me just say, I have noticed that strong secure men are comfortable with women having equality and respect.

It seems those men who feel threatened by women as equals are those who are insecure or struggling with their own sense of manhood.

:-)

~dancer~