What Woman Know...and some other woman perhaps don't

[_Coggins7]

What would you, Scratch, allow your children, especially younger children to consume regarding

1. Literature

2. Music

3. Visual media (movies, television)?

[_Trevor]

What would you, Scratch, allow your children, especially younger children to consume regarding

1. Literature

2. Music

3. Visual media (movies, television)?

Better watch out, Scratch. Loran wrote a whole article on Meridian about this one. He's a real authority on it!

[_Mister Scratch]

One aspect of the talk I find disturbing is the repeated insistence that any deviation from this "role" is somehow a failing. (If the women who "know" are the ones who are devoted entirely to pumping out kids, dusting, watering the plants, baking cookings, and scrubbing toilets, then doesn't that therefore mean that anyone who *doesn't* do these things is "not in the know," or "stupid", or "a failure"?)

Could you quote the portions of the talk that make mention of these judgments?

It's implicit both in the caricature that is developed over the course of the talk, and in the repeated refraid "Women who know..."

This part of the talk is also disturbing:

Quote:
They allow less media in their homes, less distraction, less activity that draws their children away from their home.

This seems to be saying that TBM mothers should smother their children and prevent them from fully experiencing the world: no TV (unless it is KBYU or the like); no movies (except Church-sanctioned ones); no visiting friends (unless they are LDS); etc. It is a disquieting, hive-like mentality that Sis. Beck seems to be encouraging women to cultivate.

Could you show us the inferential process of thought that allowed you to come to this conclusion based upon the statement provided?

It's right there in the quote.

I"d let my kids watch The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad or North by Northwest, anytime. At a certain age, I'd let them watch Dracula Has Risen From the Grave and Night of the Living Dead.

Yes, but would Sis. Beck? Or would a woman who followed Beck's talk to a 'T' allow her children to watch these films? My guess is: probably not. I have a hard time seeing how a hardcore adherent to this "message" would be able to find anything "uplifting" about the titles mentioned here.

I wouldn't let them watch Porky's, Sex in the City, Eyes Wide Shut, any Tarantino film, the vast majority of recent (last 10 to 16 years) horror films (especially the nihilstic, gratuitous "splatter" films) (or, probably ninety percent of what Hollywood produces today). I strictly monitored what my step sons could listen to. They could have Heavy Metal and hard rock, but with strict limitations, which applied to Rap and other genres as well.

No harm in that.

I guess the question is: What is the purpose in these limitations? What, at heart, is more "spiritually uplifting" about Night of the Living Dead vs. some Church-produced film? It seems to me that the logic inherent in Sis. Beck's talk would entail jettisoning *anything* which was not Church-sanctioned. Basically, this means that a conscientious mother is limited to Church-produced materials, and that's pretty much it.

[_Coggins7]

What would you, Scratch, allow your children, especially younger children to consume regarding

1. Literature

2. Music

3. Visual media (movies, television)?

Better watch out, Scratch. Loran wrote a whole article on Meridian about this one. He's a real authority on it!

You will doubtless then, enjoy my upcoming two to three part series thoroughly dismantling and delegitimizing the environmental movement and its hideous political and economic agenda.

Bon Appétit

[_Moniker]

My oldest daughter and I have watched Night of the Living Dead together. There are lessons on race relations in that film. It came out the same year King was assassinated and was groundbreaking to have a lead character that was the hero as a black man. Also, what precisely is a human being? Who is less than human? The zombies were white and the man that was alive and helping those that were less capable was a black man. The movie ends with grainy shots that would be akin to the Vietnam War footage of the time. The hero dies in this movie -- no happy ending. Who kills him?

There's a lot of meaning and historical relevance in that film. I'd rather have my daughter discuss and watch that film than The Singles Ward.

[_Trevor]

You will doubtless then, enjoy my upcoming two to three part series thoroughly dismantling and delegitimizing the environmental movement and its hideous political and economic agenda.

Bon Appétit

Who said anything about me enjoying it?

[Dr. Sunstoned]

It's implicit both in the caricature that is developed over the course of the talk, and in the repeated refraid "Women who know..."

To someone of your philosophical biases, this implication may, indeed, loom large. But as I thought, this is nothing more than your subjective impression. Beck herself, implies no such strangulating standards.

Yes, but would Sis. Beck? Or would a woman who followed Beck's talk to a 'T' allow her children to watch these films? My guess is: probably not. I have a hard time seeing how a hardcore adherent to this "message" would be able to find anything "uplifting" about the titles mentioned here.

What is it about Seventh Voyage you think Sister Beck would find objectionable on Gospel grounds? Or the Hitchcock film? How about It Came From Beneath the Sea, or The Seven Faces of Dr. Lao, or Animal Crackers or King Kong? What about Bugs Bunny cartoons? These are not LDS films. As to the Dracula or Zombie films, such films, well made and not gratuitous or pornographic, can tell us much about ourselves and dramatize aspects of the human condition difficult to achieve in other genres. Sister Beck might disagree, but that would be a matter of personal preference, not Gospel standards.

You as yet have not answered my question and showed what it is in her talk that would imply the artificial standards you concocted.

I guess the question is: What is the purpose in these limitations? What, at heart, is more "spiritually uplifting" about Night of the Living Dead vs. some Church-produced film? It seems to me that the logic inherent in Sis. Beck's talk would entail jettisoning *anything* which was not Church-sanctioned. Basically, this means that a conscientious mother is limited to Church-produced materials, and that's pretty much it.

Nothing not Church sanctioned? Could you elucidate the logic you claim to see here, because I do not. I know of no Church teaching that says, at an appropriate age, we should not see films of the Nazi death camps. Its not spiritually uplifting, but I don't know of any doctrine or counsel in the Church that says everything we see or hear has to be, especially when it conveys factual knowlege about the human condition that must be understood and should never be forgotten.

What I do understand is that we are counseled to avoid things that are gratuitous, puerile, and worldly and that may influence or incite us to evil or desensitize us to it. Hence, while I know of nobody who watches old films of emaciated Holocaust victims over and over again, there are vast concourses of people enamored of erotic media, gratuitous, pornographic violence, the dark, meaningless Nietzschean nihilism of many modern films, videos, and literature, and the antinomian lyrics and attitudes of much modern music.

I'm sure Sister Beck can make the distinction between the Lone Ranger shooting the bad guys, within that moral context, and the typical R rated Tarnantino film is which the bad guys are the good guys, or there are no good guys at all, and morality is invisible. I would let my kids listen to some hard rock. Not most.

This is a matter of discernment and realism. The Church has never taught us that we can shield our kids or ourselves from the world. This is the importance of our homes (our personal Temples) within which we can find safety and refuge from the nonsense, gibberish, and oppressive darkness of "Babylon".

Since when did the Church teach that children should not be exposed to the great, non-LDS literature of the world? Or when has it taught that children should not, and will not, be exposed to the realities of the world? Should LDS children be exposed, at the right time, to films of the twin towers attacks. Certainly. Should they be exposed to Tom Cruise screwing his wife on screen? No, and nobody should expose themselves to that. No one, that is, who is concerned for the care of the life of the soul.

[_Coggins7]

My oldest daughter and I have watched Night of the Living Dead together. There are lessons on race relations in that film. It came out the same year King was assassinated and was groundbreaking to have a lead character that was the hero as a black man. Also, what precisely is a human being? Who is less than human? The zombies were white and the man that was alive and helping those that were less capable was a black man. The movie ends with grainy shots that would be akin to the Vietnam War footage of the time. The hero dies in this movie -- no happy ending. Who kills him?

There's a lot of meaning and historical relevance in that film. I'd rather have my daughter discuss and watch that film than The Singles Ward.

This analysis is, well, rather facile, and not what I have in mind, but you get the drift at least.

[_Moniker]

My oldest daughter and I have watched Night of the Living Dead together. There are lessons on race relations in that film. It came out the same year King was assassinated and was groundbreaking to have a lead character that was the hero as a black man. Also, what precisely is a human being? Who is less than human? The zombies were white and the man that was alive and helping those that were less capable was a black man. The movie ends with grainy shots that would be akin to the Vietnam War footage of the time. The hero dies in this movie -- no happy ending. Who kills him?

There's a lot of meaning and historical relevance in that film. I'd rather have my daughter discuss and watch that film than The Singles Ward.

This analysis is, well, rather facile, and not what I have in mind, but you get the drift at least.

Well, I could have copy and pasted an entire essay on the movie I wrote years ago for a film class -- it was a bit more in depth. :)

Yet, my point is that to poo poo certain films, that on the face have no merit, is easily done by those that are not aware of the underlying message.

[_Bond...James Bond]

My oldest daughter and I have watched Night of the Living Dead together. There are lessons on race relations in that film. It came out the same year King was assassinated and was groundbreaking to have a lead character that was the hero as a black man. Also, what precisely is a human being? Who is less than human? The zombies were white and the man that was alive and helping those that were less capable was a black man. The movie ends with grainy shots that would be akin to the Vietnam War footage of the time. The hero dies in this movie -- no happy ending. Who kills him?

There's a lot of meaning and historical relevance in that film. I'd rather have my daughter discuss and watch that film than The Singles Ward.

As I recall (from interviews with Romero or someone else involved with making the movie) they made the movie and King was shot soon after it began showing. Talk about coincidence (not to mention something to add context after the fact).

Excellent movie though. The whole thing can be viewed on youtube (one clip...quite a rarity since it's public domain I believe).