Does every man have his price?

[_Tal Bachman]

It's starting to seem like it. I have always appreciated and greatly respected Randy Keyes for all he did for me and my wife. I guess that's over. And it hurts.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I believe that you've been misrepresenting Randy Keyes in much the same extravagant way you've continually misrepresented me, Louis Midgley, Davis Bitton, and others.

Yet I think it very likely -- I really do -- that you actually believe that you're not grotesquely distorting what we believe and what we've said.

The human mind is an amazing thing.

[_Tal Bachman]

Randy Keyes, I am very sorry to say, did not tell the truth about our meeting, Daniel.


By the way, I await your citations of where I've "misrepresented" you and all your friends. Good luck.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Randy Keyes, I am very sorry to say, did not tell the truth about our meeting, Daniel.

I'm sorry to say that I don't regard you as credible on that question, Tal. Too much personal experience of you to do that.

By the way, I await your citations of where I've "misrepresented" you and all your friends. Good luck.

Well, you're going to have to wait a bit. It's late, I'm tired, and I leave tomorrow for the Middle East.

But your misrepresentations have been constant, gross, and, of course, very typically accompanied by contemptuous insults (e.g., sociopath, loon, idiot, insane, buffoon, and other termini technici of haute Bachmanism).

However, I just sent off a pretty good paper for publication a few minutes ago, so life is good.

Buenas noches, amigo.

[_Boaz & Lidia]

Randy Keyes, I am very sorry to say, did not tell the truth about our meeting, Daniel.


By the way, I await your citations of where I've "misrepresented" you and all your friends. Good luck.

Not surprising since lying and distortion of the truth is expected behavior for believing and defending LDS members.

Both Randy and Daniel have a distinct need to believe. Its amazing what desperation will cause people to do.

Tal, I remember your post on RfM as Rosebud concerning your discussion with Randy.

It was the beginning of my exit, and helped smooth things out with my wife which eventually led her out along with all of our children.

Thank you for your post nearly four years ago.

[_Boaz & Lidia]

Randy Keyes, I am very sorry to say, did not tell the truth about our meeting, Daniel.

I'm sorry to say that I don't regard you as credible on that question, Tal. Too much personal experience of you to do that.

With the interviews that both of you gave for PBS, I'd venture to guess that the vast majority viewed Tal as being more genuine than yourself.

[_Tal Bachman]

Let me be the first to congratulate you on publishing a paper in an actual academic journal, if that is indeed what it is. That marks a very nice change.

As far as your judgment of credibility goes...being that your "truth detection meter" is still impelling you to grant supreme credibility to a guy who claimed a homicidal, sword-wielding angel forced him to secretly have sex with the daughters and wives of his friends, and also claimed that the sun has light not because of internal nuclear processes, but because it "borrows" light from an as-yet-undiscovered star called "Kolob", it's hard for me to get too upset that you don't believe me. It's like being called a fantasist by a J.Z. Knight spokesman.

[_Tal Bachman]

Thanks Boaz and Lidia, I appreciate that. I am embarrassed about it, but I feel really low about it. I have admired Randy Keyes as long as I've known him.

For some reason, I don't think this is over.

I feel really bummed out. Ah well. I guess this is what happens.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Dang. Still awake. Hard to shut down after a pretty intense day.

With the interviews that both of you gave for PBS, I'd venture to guess that the vast majority viewed Tal as being more genuine than yourself.

And that "guess" is based on . . . what, exactly?

The "Talibachman" schtick was pretty impressive, though. I'll grant you that.

Let me be the first to congratulate you on publishing a paper in an actual academic journal, if that is indeed what it is. That marks a very nice change.

LOL. Well, during this past week I finished editing Books 1 and II (out of four) of a new translation of Ibn Sina's Physics for the Islamic Translation Series that I founded and edit, which is distributed by the University of Chicago Press; made the final revisions to a substantial article on "Eschatology" for the forthcoming multi-volume Oxford Encyclopedia of the Islamic World; took my little staff out to lunch to celebrate the publication of the latest volume in the series of the Medical Works of Moses Maimonides that I founded and edit, which is distributed by the University of Chicago Press; completed a roughly sixty-page article on "Mormonism and the Trinity" for Element, the journal of the Society for Mormon Theology and Philosophy; made substantial progress on editing both the Arabic and the English of Fakhr al-Din al-Razi's A‘lam al-Nubuwwa for my Islamic Translation Series; and finished editorial changes to a lengthy article on legends about the pre-existence, conception, gestation, and birth of the Prophet Muhammad, for a volume entitled Imagining the Fetus that will appear toward the end of summer from Oxford University Press.

And no, these are not my first ventures into academic publishing.

As far as your judgment of credibility goes...being that your "truth detection meter" is still impelling you to grant supreme credibility to a guy who claimed a homicidal, sword-wielding angel forced him to secretly have sex with the daughters and wives of his friends, and also claimed that the sun has light not because of internal nuclear processes, but because it "borrows" light from an as-yet-undiscovered star called "Kolob", it's hard for me to get too upset that you don't believe me. It's like being called a fantasist by a J.Z. Knight spokesman.

Nice attempt at sneering misdirection.

The fact remains that my personal experience with you leads me to trust Randy Keyes rather than Tal Bachman. I don't know him, but I'm all too familiar with you.

[_Trevor]

The fact remains that my personal experience with you leads me to trust Randy Keyes rather than Tal Bachman. I don't know him, but I'm all too familiar with you.

And this is flawed thinking, unless, of course, your intent was merely to insult. The truth is that you do not know Keyes, and so you really do not know whether he is trustworthy or not. Your decision to trust him over Tal is probably based on your religious assumptions and biases. For all you know the guy is lying through his teeth.

Personally, I think he holds his obligation to the flock over the importance of strict accuracy concerning their discussion. I also think it is likely that Tal read a little much into some of Keyes's statements. And, I, like you, may be way off.