A "Female Problem"?

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_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

In contemporary America, without an egregious redefinition of the spectrum of views on gender roles, this isn't accurate. They're progressive for LDS. For America in general, this is conventional wisdom. While "progressive" is a synonym of "leftist" when used in a certain context, it doesn't really translate here.


Keep up the sophisticated pose Allusion. The term "Progressive" has been used historically to circumscribe everything on the left from various form of democratic socialism to the most extreme forms of utopian collectivism (revolutionary Marxism/Leninism). Progressivism is Leftism, in any western context.

How transparent you really are, Allusion.
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.


- Thomas S. Monson
_ajax18
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Post by _ajax18 »

Moniker wrote:
ajax18 wrote:
What is wrong with letting them have choices.


Nothing. Women should have all the rights that men have. But with rights, should come responsibility, and they should also have all the responsibilities that men have. As of now, they don't!


Ajax, what responsibilities do women not have that men shoulder?


I already mentioned a few. Military conscription would be #1. After that I believe that family law is grossly unfair to fathers and husbands as it currently stands. That's probably the biggest injustice that needs cured. That's also a big reason why women have more power in the marital relationship. It used to be that they had more power during the dating process, but after that they didn't. Now with divorce law the way it is, they have the power before and after the marriage and after the marriage ends. You have to really screw up as a woman to not get custody of the children. If you're a man, you might as well just count on supporting a woman who is now sleeping with someone else. She doesn't have to prove she spent that money on the children. She could spend it on her new boyfriend if she wanted. How is that right, or even in the best interest of the child?

Then I go to speaking within Mormonism, specifically the net effects in my own family and stake for that matter of my Mormon upbringing. Basically the leadership was so scared of the feminists that they made up for it by treating the young men unfairly. Notice I said young men, not the old men in power. It seemed like Mormon girls went to college for fun and self fullfillment. Mormon boys went to bust their tales doing something that would make them a provider! Mormon men were required to serve the mission, while women were not. Mormon boys did all the heavy work (constanly moving tables and chairs, brushogging at service projects, and then so we didn't appear "sexist," our wonderful leadership had us go in and do the dishes and vacuum the floors.

It first pissed me off, when the girls would hit me in primary because they new as a boy, I wasn't allowed to hit back. And they continue to hit, but they've found the passive aggressive method which is even worse. It's the whole manner of speech. Men are always the butt of jokes at church and said to be less spiritual. Of course they mean the young men, not the holy alpha leader. The fact that they're so obviously trying to compensate is what I think discredits them the most. They're not speaking truth. They're speaking what fits a political agenda.

I see it continue with my niece and nephew. They're three. She hits him. He hits back. He gets beaten. She gets a hug and a kiss, and his dad thinks that's how it should be. Is he a better behaved child than she is because of it? Probably, but that's how they have been programmed. My Dad as well as most dads I met, was basically a sexist in this way. As far as I'm concerned it's all crap. The Mormon culture part I can renounce, but the American legal part I can't escape in this life. I have to look to the next for redemption. And obviously I'll do everything in my power to put a stop to this injustice on earth.
Last edited by ICCrawler - ICjobs on Mon May 05, 2008 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

ajax18 wrote:
Moniker wrote:
ajax18 wrote:
What is wrong with letting them have choices.


Nothing. Women should have all the rights that men have. But with rights, should come responsibility, and they should also have all the responsibilities that men have. As of now, they don't!


Ajax, what responsibilities do women not have that men shoulder?


I already mentioned a few. Military conscription would be #1.


What world do you live in, that men are still drafted?

After that I believe that family law is grossly unfair to fathers and husbands as it currently stands. That's probably the biggest injustice that needs cured.

{snip}

The Mormon culture part I can renounce, but the American legal part I can't escape in this life. I have to look to the next for redemption.


Sucks to be powerless, doesn't it? Women have been living with it for centuries. Dang, but it's hard to put the shoe on the other foot, isn't it?
_ajax18
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Post by _ajax18 »

Sucks to be powerless, doesn't it? Women have been living with it for centuries. Dang, but it's hard to put the shoe on the other foot, isn't it?


And that's just it. You're as bad as the African Americans. You think you can avenge what my ancestors did to yours by taking it out on me. Don't tell me feminism has anything to do with justice.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

ajax18 wrote:
Sucks to be powerless, doesn't it? Women have been living with it for centuries. Dang, but it's hard to put the shoe on the other foot, isn't it?


And that's just it. You're as bad as the African Americans. You think you can avenge what my ancestors did to yours by taking it out on me. Don't tell me feminism has anything to do with justice.


Ah. An equal opportunity bigot. We've been missing you lately, Ajax.
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

ajax18 wrote:I already mentioned a few. Military conscription would be #1


Military service isn't compulsory in the U.S. for anyone.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_ajax18
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Post by _ajax18 »

What do you mean, men can't be drafted. Men still have to sign up for selective service and women do not. If the draft is instituted, men will have to go and women won't.

You're not going to get me to back down from my chance to assert myself and the way things seem to me with words like "bigot," or racist. In case you haven't noticed, they don't scare me. It is what it is, and I'll call it the way I see it. At least you didn't try to tell me what I see happen didn't happen. Thank you for that.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

ajax18 wrote:What do you mean, men can't be drafted. Men still have to sign up for selective service and women do not. If the draft is instituted, men will have to go and women won't.


I didn't say men can't be drafted. I said there is no draft. And since it would be political suicide, I doubt there ever will be again.

...I'll call it the way I see it.


So do I.
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

ajax18 wrote:What do you mean, men can't be drafted. Men still have to sign up for selective service and women do not. If the draft is instituted, men will have to go and women won't.

You're not going to get me to back down from my chance to assert myself and the way things seem to me with words like "bigot," or racist. In case you haven't noticed, they don't scare me. It is what it is, and I'll call it the way I see it. At least you didn't try to tell me what I see happen didn't happen. Thank you for that.


ajax,

I misunderstood what you were getting at here. Back down from a chance to assert yourself? What on earth are you ranting about there? Do I even post to you on this board very often?

Feel free to assert yourself til your fingers fall off and call it whatever you like!
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_ajax18
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Post by _ajax18 »

Sorry Jersey Girl, that was directed at Harmony.

The other issue I have is this "equal pay for equal work" thing. The problem I see is that it's not equal work. If you take time off to have a baby at the company's expense, you're not doing equal work. Neither are sick people who cost the company money in medical bills. Neither are people who aren't as smart or aren't as fast. People are discriminated against all the time, whether it be for looks, health, or ability, we're all discriminated against. I don't really see how a person can control how healthy they are any more than he can control whether she is male or female. WalMart actually does background checks into a persons health before they'll hire them on full time in order to make sure they won't cost the company money in medical bills. I don't see this kind of discrimination any more fair than discrimination against women because they have the potential to bear children. Than they test people, and only the smartest people get the best jobs. What's fair about that? Yet we look at these tests as moral, and gender discrimination as immoral. I don't buy it.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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