Dr. Peterson makes a lot of sense

[_marg]

I thought the idea of claiming to translate via the Urim and Thummin came into vogue sometime after the fact. Perhaps the Biblical connection was its selling point.

That's my understanding as well. If the U & T is mentioned in the Bible then it gives the story more credibility to believers. But my memory is hazy on this. I don't think J.S. ever talked about particulars of method, I thought only the people alleged to be transcribers or observers did. And other than Cowdery I believe none of the others mentioned U & T, which is not the same as seer stones, whether they be one or two. Is that your understanding?

[_RockHeaded]

I thought the idea of claiming to translate via the Urim and Thummin came into vogue sometime after the fact. Perhaps the Biblical connection was its selling point.

That's my understanding as well. If the U & T is mentioned in the Bible then it gives the story more credibility to believers. But my memory is hazy on this. I don't think J.S. ever talked about particulars of method, I thought only the people alleged to be transcribers or observers did. And other than Cowdery I believe none of the others mentioned U & T, which is not the same as seer stones, whether they be one or two. Is that your understanding?

Oliver Cowdery was the main scribe. In 1848 he said this:

"I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages), as it fell from the lips of the prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim. {History of the RLDS Church, vol. 1, pg. 50}

In the letter Joseph wrote to the Chicago Democrat he says this:

"The whole book exhibited many marks of antiquity in its construction and much skill in the art of engraving. With the records was found a curious instrument which the ancients called Urim and Thummim, which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift, and power of God" {Times and Seasons vol. III no. 9, March 1, 1842, pg 707}

So as you can see, Joseph Smith said he used the Urim and Thummim to translate the Book of Mormon. Oliver Cowdery confirms it. There were no other stones used.

RockHeaded

[_Jersey Girl]

Oliver Cowdery was the main scribe. In 1848 he said this:

"I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages), as it fell from the lips of the prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim. {History of the RLDS Church, vol. 1, pg. 50}

In the letter Joseph wrote to the Chicago Democrat he says this:

"The whole book exhibited many marks of antiquity in its construction and much skill in the art of engraving. With the records was found a curious instrument which the ancients called Urim and Thummim, which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift, and power of God" {Times and Seasons vol. III no. 9, March 1, 1842, pg 707}

So as you can see, Joseph Smith said he used the Urim and Thummim to translate the Book of Mormon. Oliver Cowdery confirms it. There were no other stones used.

All of the above are fabrications.

[_RockHeaded]

Oliver Cowdery was the main scribe. In 1848 he said this:

"I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages), as it fell from the lips of the prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim. {History of the RLDS Church, vol. 1, pg. 50}

In the letter Joseph wrote to the Chicago Democrat he says this:

"The whole book exhibited many marks of antiquity in its construction and much skill in the art of engraving. With the records was found a curious instrument which the ancients called Urim and Thummim, which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift, and power of God" {Times and Seasons vol. III no. 9, March 1, 1842, pg 707}

So as you can see, Joseph Smith said he used the Urim and Thummim to translate the Book of Mormon. Oliver Cowdery confirms it. There were no other stones used.

All of the above are fabrications.

If they were then you would find contradictions in Joseph's story, he never once contradicts himself. People that lie generally catch themselves. It's funny how the majority believe Joseph was a polygamist when again he is consistant in what he says about this issue. The people that go on record as claiming to be his wives, or claim he had many wives, all contradict themselves and each other. Seems a lie is easier to swallow than the truth.

RockHeaded

[_Jersey Girl]

Seems a lie is easier to swallow than the truth.

You took the words right out of my keyboard, Rock.

[_marg]

So Rockheaded what were the various methods described and who described them. How many of them said J.S. used the U & T?

What did M Harris say? Emma? D. Whitmer? Other Whitmers, Emma's dad and whoever else you can think of? thanks

[_LifeOnaPlate]

Is this image seen as accurate? What account has Joseph Smith in a giant cabin sitting on stairs with a bearded scribe below at a desk? And I assume the stairs lead to a hatch to the roof?

[_RockHeaded]

Is this image seen as accurate? What account has Joseph Smith in a giant cabin sitting on stairs with a bearded scribe below at a desk? And I assume the stairs lead to a hatch to the roof?

I don't recall reading anywhere in Church History where Joseph Smith sat on the stairs while the scribe wrote down below? I do remember reading that they put up a sheet between the scribe and Joseph Smith because no one was to see the plates at the time.

Jersey Girl so it's obvious then that you now accept the fact that those that contradict themselves are more than likely lieing?

[_marg]

So Rockheaded, is the use of the U & T. only mentioned by J.S. & Cowdery? Did they mention this as the process was going on or was this mentioned after the Book of Mormon was published?How does the U.& T compare to one or 2 seer stones in physical description?

[_RockHeaded]

So Rockheaded, is the use of the U & T. only mentioned by J.S. & Cowdery? Did they mention this as the process was going on or was this mentioned after the Book of Mormon was published?How does the U.& T compare to one or 2 seer stones in physical description?

There are quotes from others on the Urim and Thummim. Right now I'm not feeling like reading, sorry... I will get them for you though. It has been so nice outside that reading just hasn't been much fun. Idaho Falls has been cold since October and we've finally gotten warm weather two days in a row. Anyhow, I have some good stuff on this, just have to dig for it.