No, she doesn't, which is why I'm through with this thread unless she starts critiquing my arguments point by point in a methodological fashion. Its like trying to argue with a tape recorder that's just going to say what was recorded their earlier anyway.
Your point by point arguments attempt to place a logical foundation onto faith-based claims. I won't justify your faith based claims as logically sound by arguing with them. Your theology may be interesting to you, but it is still based, ultimately and only, in your "spiritual" mind meld.
Once it can be ascertained by the perpetual necessity to reaffirm you spiritual witness, there is enough evidence to conclude that your spiritual witness is nothing more than you having a conversation with yourself about the ideas that you want yourself AND EVERYONE ELSE, to concede is "knowledge and truth." The evidence is all around you Coggins7. You are like a fish who denies that he is in water.
Here is the real fact. You have a mind for philosophy and dialectic. So you put it to use to defend your faith as more than faith. That is plain to see. You like to argue and so do I. I simply see things more clearly than you at this point.
amantha wrote:No your god doesn't. Because you continue to fail to, without doubt, know anything. Your knowing is no different than anyone else who persists in affirming a desired belief. Your god does not overwhelm you inability to certainly know anything. You constantly revert to doubt and yet you, in your very last post, claim certainty. Are you certain that your god gives you certainty? Of course you will say you are, but that is simply your need to be right about your beliefs talking. You are a perpetually fallible being and if your god does cannot overcome that perpetual fallibility, then your god is not fallible. He is just like you.
Which would explain that your god is your creation and not the other way around.
You choose to misunderstand my analogy because you must persist in your erroneous belief and certain knowledge. What you have is faith and nothing more. Your personal fallibility precludes you from being certain about anything and yet you claim to be certain about the nature of a supernatural being.
Come down from your high place and join the humble human race.
When did the human race become humble? Thank you for the first laugh of the day.
Your analysis of what I've said shows you have no idea what I said. Thank you for telling me what I experienced. I'm sure that random internet people who have never met me know more about my spirituality then me. I don't think this is going anywhere. See ya.
Well you have a point there. It is humble but a large chunk of it, including you and Coggins7 among others, don't perceive their own arrogance. People see the world as they are, so I can understand why you don't see the human race as humble.
I don't have to know you personally, I just need to understand that you are just like the rest of us fallible humans although you would rather have us believe that you can infallibly know supernatural things.
And no, it is not going anywhere. We are at the natural impasses that comes between all people who believe so disparately that they form themselves into separate belief groups. This is the nature of the world and pretty much always has been. But I believe the problem lies with those who want to claim certain knowledge of supernatural realities based on experiences which wax and wain just like anyone else's beliefs and yet claim that they are somehow special.
To say you have faith is one thing, to claim certain knowledge based on nothing more than internal experience is quite another, but that really wouldn't be a problem if there wasn't an innate need to tell others that they must see the world as you see it, or suffer consequences. And don't tell me that Mormonism doesn't do that. It most certainly does.
amantha wrote:I simply see things more clearly than you at this point.
And I'm the arrogant one? You're the one dictating what everyone else is experiencing.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
amantha wrote:I simply see things more clearly than you at this point.
And I'm the arrogant one? You're the one dictating what everyone else is experiencing.
I am not "dictating what everyone else is experiencing." I am merely able to see that your what you frame as "absolute certainty" is no different than the certainty indicated by those who are willing to castrate themselves or blow themselves up or drink the koolaid or depart for the mothership. But these people's certainty is not the "right kind" of certainty that you have even though you have periodic doubts due to your fallible human nature. People can be so willing to affirm their certainty that they will do just about anything. Your blindly faithful words on this site is the least that I expect from you. You can and will do more for your "certainty" if ever the need arises.
amantha wrote:I simply see things more clearly than you at this point.
And I'm the arrogant one? You're the one dictating what everyone else is experiencing.
I am not "dictating what everyone else is experiencing." I am merely able to see that your what you frame as "absolute certainty" is no different than the certainty indicated by those who are willing to castrate themselves or blow themselves up or drink the koolaid or depart for the mothership. But these people's certainty is not the "right kind" of certainty that you have even though you have periodic doubts due to your fallible human nature. People can be so willing to affirm their certainty that they will do just about anything. Your blindly faithful words on this site is the least that I expect from you. You can and will do more for your "certainty" if ever the need arises.
I call that crazy, other people call that faith.
Now the voices are telling me to knock over your mailbox, egg your house, start a barbershop quartet, start a fire, and discontinue this thread. They speak. I must obey.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
amantha wrote:I simply see things more clearly than you at this point.
And I'm the arrogant one? You're the one dictating what everyone else is experiencing.
I am not "dictating what everyone else is experiencing." I am merely able to see that your what you frame as "absolute certainty" is no different than the certainty indicated by those who are willing to castrate themselves or blow themselves up or drink the koolaid or depart for the mothership. But these people's certainty is not the "right kind" of certainty that you have even though you have periodic doubts due to your fallible human nature. People can be so willing to affirm their certainty that they will do just about anything. Your blindly faithful words on this site is the least that I expect from you. You can and will do more for your "certainty" if ever the need arises.
I call that crazy, other people call that faith.
Now the voices are telling me to knock over your mailbox, egg your house, start a barbershop quartet, start a fire, and discontinue this thread. They speak. I must obey.
If the humor works, use it. Humor can be used to avoid the necessary consequences of one's "certainty."
amantha wrote:I simply see things more clearly than you at this point.
And I'm the arrogant one? You're the one dictating what everyone else is experiencing.
I am not "dictating what everyone else is experiencing." I am merely able to see that your what you frame as "absolute certainty" is no different than the certainty indicated by those who are willing to castrate themselves or blow themselves up or drink the koolaid or depart for the mothership. But these people's certainty is not the "right kind" of certainty that you have even though you have periodic doubts due to your fallible human nature. People can be so willing to affirm their certainty that they will do just about anything. Your blindly faithful words on this site is the least that I expect from you. You can and will do more for your "certainty" if ever the need arises.
I call that crazy, other people call that faith.
Now the voices are telling me to knock over your mailbox, egg your house, start a barbershop quartet, start a fire, and discontinue this thread. They speak. I must obey.
If the humor works, use it. Humor can be used to avoid the necessary consequences of one's "certainty."
How would you even know what the consequences are. I live with them every day. If being happy, hopeful, and fun is a necessary consequence, somehow I'll cope.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote:How would you even know what the consequences are. I live with them every day. If being happy, hopeful, and fun is a necessary consequence, somehow I'll cope.
Good for you. I am glad that you are happy with your faith. Peace.
So yes, a sham could definitely give you a taste of heaven, whatever that means.
Fine, dark beer on tap in a cold, cold glass is what it means, I think.
Yes, the idea that joy comes from losing control of your mental faculties shows how little we know about it. ;)
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo