Fun w/ online missionaries: NY TIMES on 14 year old bride!

[_Boaz & Lidia]

Sooo after reading the great article on NY Times comparing the FLDS to the early LDS and reading the shallow response by LDS Inc, I thought it would be a great topic for the unwitting online chat fools at moron.org

So I get a lady.

I bring up the NY Times article, which she cannot view the site of course.

I ask if Joseph Smith did in fact marry a 14 year old girl, as the article claimed.

"NO, Joseph Smith did not marry a 14 year old girl. That is a lie produced to smear the church."

So I ask her about familysearch.org. After she brags about it being the most accurate and largest genealogical online database in the world, I lowered the boom and sent her Smith's records:

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... 2167&LDS=0

And show how Helen Mar Kimball was only 14.

She... was... speechless....

It was all she could do to muster up her testiphony and then exit.


Oh it was great fun!

[_Imapiratewasher]

Lol, You are SICK sometimes. :P

[_Sam Harris]

That's just wonderful, what an enlightening hobby you have, B&L. You spend time trying to deconstruct innocent people's beliefs based on what church they go to, and then once you've done it, laughing all the while at their discomfort, you come here for praise.

I do not get the idea amongst some here that LDS who you do not know, and who have done nothing to you, deserve to be either physically or psychologically harmed. It's funny when they get beat up (KARMA!), it's funny when their houses are vandalized, it's funny when you seek them out to "give them the truth" by placing information contrary to what they've been taught before them in the most disturbing way possible.

And yet it has been bandied about on this board that I have no integrity.

[_guy sajer]

That's just wonderful, what an enlightening hobby you have, B&L. You spend time trying to deconstruct innocent people's beliefs based on what church they go to, and then once you've done it, laughing all the while at their discomfort, you come here for praise.

I do not get the idea amongst some here that LDS who you do not know, and who have done nothing to you, deserve to be either physically or psychologically harmed. It's funny when they get beat up (KARMA!), it's funny when their houses are vandalized, it's funny when you seek them out to "give them the truth" by placing information contrary to what they've been taught before them in the most disturbing way possible.

And yet it has been bandied about on this board that I have no integrity.

It's all the missionary's own lazy fault anyway. She should know all about Smith's dalliances with adolescent girls. She's just been too slothful to spend her free time perusing the MAD board and reading apologetic literature.

Did I get that about right, Dan?

[_Chap]

That's just wonderful, what an enlightening hobby you have, B&L. You spend time trying to deconstruct innocent people's beliefs based on what church they go to, and then once you've done it, laughing all the while at their discomfort, you come here for praise.

I do not get the idea amongst some here that LDS who you do not know, and who have done nothing to you, deserve to be either physically or psychologically harmed. It's funny when they get beat up (KARMA!), it's funny when their houses are vandalized, it's funny when you seek them out to "give them the truth" by placing information contrary to what they've been taught before them in the most disturbing way possible.

And yet it has been bandied about on this board that I have no integrity.

So far as I understand the situation, 'Boaz and Lydia' is a former LDS who has come to the conclusion that his time in the CoJCoLDS was a highly negative experience all round, as well as being based on falsehood. On that basis he thinks it reasonable to discourage people from joining that organisation.

The CoJCOLDS, in an effort to persuade people to join it, maintains a website with an open invitation to 'chat' with someone described as 'a missionary', whose object may reasonably be supposed to be to persuade people that the teachings of the CoJCoLDS are true. That person is presumably there in a volunteer capacity, and can reasonably be presumed to anticipate that he or she may encounter strong unbelief.

'Boaz and Lydia' can, it seems to me, quite properly accept the invitation to 'chat', and in the course of that chat may reasonably make his best efforts to argue against the position that the missionary advocates.

You refer to his dialog with the missionary as "deconstruct[ing] innocent people's beliefs based on what church they go to". The word 'deconstructing' seems misused here (surely you just mean 'arguiing against'?), and 'innocent' is surely irrelevant too - you speak as if B&L had chosen to hit the missionary with a stick in an unprovoked attack, whereas he is in fact simply accepting the open invitation to chat, and then putting forward evidence that the missionary's position (Joseph Smith did not marry a teenage girl) is false. [You then move into irrelevant stuff about other people delighting in physical attacking LDS persons and property, though this is not what B&L is advocating here.] And as for the stuff about "based on what church they go to" - you would hardly have expected B&L to give the missionary a trenchant refutation of (say) the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation, would you? He is talking to an LDS, so he discusses what the CoJCoLDS teaches.

You complain about B&L thinking "it's funny when you seek [LDS] out to "give them the truth" by placing information contrary to what they've been taught before them in the most disturbing way possible". Please recall that he is talking to a missionary who has offered to discuss LDS belief with all comers in the hope of converting them. He is not shouting at people in the street, nor appearing on their doorsteps unannounced to offer his message. Why shoudn't he offer the best counterevidence he can?

And frankly I do find it ludicrous, and indeed laughable, that a missionary for the CoJCoLDS can be so ignorant about the history of Joseph Smith, the prophet of the church for which they are proselytizing, that he or she does not know Joseph Smith married a whole lot of women, some of them teenagers, some of them sisters who were his legal wards, If I recall correctly. Anyone that ignorant in such a role cannot complain if their ignorance is sometimes mocked. While I don't have the same motivations and tastes as B&L, I really don't see anything bad about what he has done here.

I think you on the other hand need to ask yourself why the CoJCoLDS is marketing itself using naïve and ill-prepared kids in this way.

[_Imapiratewasher]

B&L, I think I will go on a mission and chat with you. Lol.

Sam, who said you are like that?

[_guy sajer]

That's just wonderful, what an enlightening hobby you have, B&L. You spend time trying to deconstruct innocent people's beliefs based on what church they go to, and then once you've done it, laughing all the while at their discomfort, you come here for praise.

I do not get the idea amongst some here that LDS who you do not know, and who have done nothing to you, deserve to be either physically or psychologically harmed. It's funny when they get beat up (KARMA!), it's funny when their houses are vandalized, it's funny when you seek them out to "give them the truth" by placing information contrary to what they've been taught before them in the most disturbing way possible.

And yet it has been bandied about on this board that I have no integrity.

So far as I understand the situation, 'Boaz and Lydia' is a former LDS who has come to the conclusion that his time in the CoJCoLDS was a highly negative experience all round, as well as being based on falsehood. On that basis he thinks it reasonable to discourage people from joining that organisation.

The CoJCOLDS, in an effort to persuade people to join it, maintains a website with an open invitation to 'chat' with someone described as 'a missionary', whose object may reasonably be supposed to be to persuade people that the teachings of the CoJCoLDS are true. That person is presumably there in a volunteer capacity, and can reasonably be presumed to anticipate that he or she may encounter strong unbelief.

'Boaz and Lydia' can, it seems to me, quite properly accept the invitation to 'chat', and in the course of that chat may reasonably make his best efforts to argue against the position that the missionary advocates.

You refer to his dialog with the missionary as "deconstruct[ing] innocent people's beliefs based on what church they go to". The word 'deconstructing' seems misused here (surely you just mean 'arguiing against'?), and 'innocent' is surely irrelevant too - you speak as if B&L had chosen to hit the missionary with a stick in an unprovoked attack, whereas he is in fact simply accepting the open invitation to chat, and then putting forward evidence that the missionary's position (Joseph Smith did not marry a teenage girl) is false. [You then move into irrelevant stuff about other people delighting in physical attacking LDS persons and property, though this is not what B&L is advocating here.] And as for the stuff about "based on what church they go to" - you would hardly have expected B&L to give the missionary a trenchant refutation of (say) the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation, would you? He is talking to an LDS, so he discusses what the CoJCoLDS teaches.

You complain about B&L thinking "it's funny when you seek [LDS] out to "give them the truth" by placing information contrary to what they've been taught before them in the most disturbing way possible". Please recall that he is talking to a missionary who has offered to discuss LDS belief with all comers in the hope of converting them. He is not shouting at people in the street, nor appearing on their doorsteps unannounced to offer his message. Why shoudn't he offer the best counterevidence he can?

And frankly I do find it ludicrous, and indeed laughable, that a missionary for the CoJCoLDS can be so ignorant about the history of Joseph Smith, the prophet of the church for which they are proselytizing, that he or she does not know Joseph Smith married a whole lot of women, some of them teenagers, some of them sisters who were his legal wards, If I recall correctly. Anyone that ignorant in such a role cannot complain if their ignorance is sometimes mocked. While I don't have the same motivations and tastes as B&L, I really don't see anything bad about what he has done here.

I think you on the other hand need to ask yourself why the CoJCoLDS is marketing itself using naïve and ill-prepared kids in this way.

B&L's style is not mine--I'd never do this. But you're spot on Chap.

[_Dr. Shades]

"NO, Joseph Smith did not marry a 14 year old girl. That is a lie produced to smear the church."

So I ask her about familysearch.org. After she brags about it being the most accurate and largest genealogical online database in the world, I . . . show how Helen Mar Kimball was only 14.

She... was... speechless....

LOL! Dude, I have to admit that that was pretty funny!

That's just wonderful, what an enlightening hobby you have, B&L.

I'm going to have to go with Chap's response on this one. Read on:

You spend time trying to deconstruct innocent people's beliefs based on what church they go to, . . .

That seems, to me, to be far more effective than an attempt to deconstruct people's beliefs based on what church they DON'T go to.

and then once you've done it, laughing all the while at their discomfort, you come here for praise.

Where better to go for praise?

I do not get the idea amongst some here that LDS who you do not know, and who have done nothing to you, deserve to be either physically or psychologically harmed.

I disagree. She wasn't psychologically harmed; she was merely shown a truth about her religion about which her leaders had lied. She deserves to hear the truth.

. . . it's funny when you seek them out to "give them the truth" by placing information contrary to what they've been taught before them in the most disturbing way possible.

I wouldn't say it was "the most disturbing way possible." I'd say it was merely "the most effective way possible."

And yet it has been bandied about on this board that I have no integrity.

??? Who ever insinuated that you have no integrity?

It's all the missionary's own lazy fault anyway. She should know all about Smith's dalliances with adolescent girls. She's just been too slothful to spend her free time perusing the MAD board and reading apologetic literature.

Let's face it: That's PRECISELY how the MA&Dites would/should respond to this incident if they have any sort of internal consistency.

[_Sam Harris]

Firstly, I stand by the word deconstruct. B&L's sole aim is not to "chat", it is to hurt.

The church's aim is to put forth their religious beliefs as they see it. They may be ignorant (some of them, most of them) of the true history behind what they are putting forth. B&L knows that what he is doing could cause someone emotional distress.

Sorry, but it's inane. Move on. When I realized on two occasions that I alone could not make the changes that I wished to be made within a faith community, I moved away from that into individual peace.

Priate, more than one person on here has said that I have no honesty and integrity. And most of them were atheists. To me, integrity is giving others the same respect for their space and beliefs as you want for yourself.

Cheer on, guys. I can't wait for the next article to laugh about where someone got beat up just because they were LDS! Joy joy!

Digusting.

[_Sam Harris]

That's just wonderful, what an enlightening hobby you have, B&L. You spend time trying to deconstruct innocent people's beliefs based on what church they go to, and then once you've done it, laughing all the while at their discomfort, you come here for praise.

I do not get the idea amongst some here that LDS who you do not know, and who have done nothing to you, deserve to be either physically or psychologically harmed. It's funny when they get beat up (KARMA!), it's funny when their houses are vandalized, it's funny when you seek them out to "give them the truth" by placing information contrary to what they've been taught before them in the most disturbing way possible.

And yet it has been bandied about on this board that I have no integrity.

So far as I understand the situation, 'Boaz and Lydia' is a former LDS who has come to the conclusion that his time in the CoJCoLDS was a highly negative experience all round, as well as being based on falsehood. On that basis he thinks it reasonable to discourage people from joining that organisation.

The CoJCOLDS, in an effort to persuade people to join it, maintains a website with an open invitation to 'chat' with someone described as 'a missionary', whose object may reasonably be supposed to be to persuade people that the teachings of the CoJCoLDS are true. That person is presumably there in a volunteer capacity, and can reasonably be presumed to anticipate that he or she may encounter strong unbelief.

'Boaz and Lydia' can, it seems to me, quite properly accept the invitation to 'chat', and in the course of that chat may reasonably make his best efforts to argue against the position that the missionary advocates.

You refer to his dialog with the missionary as "deconstruct[ing] innocent people's beliefs based on what church they go to". The word 'deconstructing' seems misused here (surely you just mean 'arguiing against'?), and 'innocent' is surely irrelevant too - you speak as if B&L had chosen to hit the missionary with a stick in an unprovoked attack, whereas he is in fact simply accepting the open invitation to chat, and then putting forward evidence that the missionary's position (Joseph Smith did not marry a teenage girl) is false. [You then move into irrelevant stuff about other people delighting in physical attacking LDS persons and property, though this is not what B&L is advocating here.] And as for the stuff about "based on what church they go to" - you would hardly have expected B&L to give the missionary a trenchant refutation of (say) the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation, would you? He is talking to an LDS, so he discusses what the CoJCoLDS teaches.

You complain about B&L thinking "it's funny when you seek [LDS] out to "give them the truth" by placing information contrary to what they've been taught before them in the most disturbing way possible". Please recall that he is talking to a missionary who has offered to discuss LDS belief with all comers in the hope of converting them. He is not shouting at people in the street, nor appearing on their doorsteps unannounced to offer his message. Why shoudn't he offer the best counterevidence he can?

And frankly I do find it ludicrous, and indeed laughable, that a missionary for the CoJCoLDS can be so ignorant about the history of Joseph Smith, the prophet of the church for which they are proselytizing, that he or she does not know Joseph Smith married a whole lot of women, some of them teenagers, some of them sisters who were his legal wards, If I recall correctly. Anyone that ignorant in such a role cannot complain if their ignorance is sometimes mocked. While I don't have the same motivations and tastes as B&L, I really don't see anything bad about what he has done here.

I think you on the other hand need to ask yourself why the CoJCoLDS is marketing itself using naïve and ill-prepared kids in this way.

I really wish some exmos on here would really get over what the church did to them and move on. B&L is no benignly going about this, but I realize it tittlates. I understand. Way to get back at the establishment!

Every Mormon you come across is deceptive, right? They know that they're living a lie, or they're insane, so why not target them?

I will say this: I think KA's method of "spreading the truth" was far more effective and tactful than B&L. He goes online, pretends to be someone he's not, puts forth contrary information for the sake of doing so, then laughs when someone gives their "testiphony". That word right there should tell you what his intent is.

I'm so sorry for all the immense pain the LDS church has caused folks posting here. I was in that place, the disgusting black whore. But I moved on, and I will NOT abuse my friends, random LDS, or anyone from that church I meet because of my pain. Those people have the right to live their lives out as they see fit, and I am in no place to try to affect that.

But I lack integrity, so forget all I said.