Fun w/ online missionaries: NY TIMES on 14 year old bride!

Post by **_The Dude** » Wed May 07, 2008 4:36 pm

Missionaries aren't innocent. Once they sign up to sacrifice time and energy to their faith, they are fair game for those who would challenge them. The missionaries are quite familiar with war metaphors: armor of righteousness, fiery darts of the adversary, etc. This sister wasn't prepared. Now she has learned an important lesson.

Post by **_Sam Harris** » Wed May 07, 2008 4:52 pm

I'm sorry all, but I cannot bring myself to believe that young people who have spent their whole lives in a religious construct, or even converts who do not know any better are WILLINGLY misleading anyone. To say that they are is dishonest, and it's a feeble excuse used so that one can mistreat another.

The missionaries are not "fair game". Another person's life and spiritual path are not a game at all. And to assume that when the "truth" is broken to another person in jest, that it doesn't hurt as much as it did for many of us when we reached that point is again, a feeble excuse.

Many TBMs bear their testimony as a defense against things like this.

B&L, you need REAL therapy, not the "cheap" therapy this board provides. Perhaps if some of you would get on with the healing process of leaving the church, it would be of less interest to you, and you would be far more at peace.

Post by **_Sam Harris** » Wed May 07, 2008 4:56 pm

mms wrote:Let's say it was not Boaz who asked the question. Let's say it was an investigator who had most of the missionary discussions and was committed for baptism and then saw the NYT column and thought, "I did not know that. If that is true, I would like to look further into this before I get baptized." Let's say that person then goes online to ask the Church through its official missionary channels whether the statement that Joseph Smith married a 14 year old girl is true. Let's say he got the same missionary Boaz did and the missionary gave the same answer. Let's say he trusted that answer because he has developed a relationship of trust with the church's missionaries. So he gets baptized. Ten years later, after reading all of the church-approved materials (Ensign, priesthood manuals, Gospel Principles, standard wroks all the way through, Truth Restored, Jesus the Christ, A Marvelous Work and Wonder, etc.), he still doesn't know about Helen Kimball, but finally feels like he has time to read some "extra" stuff about church history and he learns about Helen Kimball. He remembers back to the day he asked that missionary--he thinks the church deceived him; he reads more and feels more deceived; he leaves the church because when it mattered most, the church lied to him through its official channels.

What's worse? What Boaz did or what the missionary did? Is it possible to think that Boaz did a service by educating the missionary on an issue that very well may come up again considering the NYT article and other media coverage re FLDS?

(Serious question. I am not sure. It was what came to my mind and I have not thought it through, so hoping folks here can help.)

You are taking individual missionaries and making them responsible for their leaders. You are ignoring the pressures, indoctrination, and cultural issues that they deal with, the same as many of you BIC exmos. I don't think that if it were you all on the other end of the stick years ago, you would like to be seen as maliciously intending to deceive.

The missionaries taught me wrong, too. But I don't believe they are bad people, they were obeying the establishment. The average 19-21 year-old doesn't posess that much of a capacity to use long-term thinking and I don't know that many whose logic skills are that strong that they are going to be questioning every little thing. They did what they were told and pressured to do, and they should be pitied, not attacked for that.

Post by **_RockHeaded** » Wed May 07, 2008 5:14 pm

Got a question. Is there a marriage license for Joseph Smith and Hellen Kimball?

Post by **_The Dude** » Wed May 07, 2008 5:24 pm

Sam Harris wrote:The missionaries are not "fair game". Another person's life and spiritual path are not a game at all.

Nobody is messing with "life" and a person's spiritual path is always her own. You are being overdramatic. Missionaries should be able to handle this kind of thing. Besides the GA's, they are the only full time representatives of the church, and as such their non-civilian spiritual path entails this kind of exposure.

Post by **_Boaz & Lidia** » Wed May 07, 2008 5:27 pm

RockHeaded wrote:Got a question. Is there a marriage license for Joseph Smith and Hellen Kimball?

yes there is.

Post by **_RockHeaded** » Wed May 07, 2008 5:33 pm

Boaz & Lidia wrote:
RockHeaded wrote:Got a question. Is there a marriage license for Joseph Smith and Hellen Kimball?
yes there is.

Where?

Post by **_Sam Harris** » Wed May 07, 2008 5:43 pm

The Dude wrote:
Sam Harris wrote:The missionaries are not "fair game". Another person's life and spiritual path are not a game at all.

Nobody is messing with "life" and a person's spiritual path is always her own. You are being overdramatic. Missionaries should be able to handle this kind of thing. Besides the GA's, they are the only full time representatives of the church, and as such their non-civilian spiritual path entails this kind of exposure.

No, I'm not being overdramatic. I'm just not cheering from the sidelines. They are PEOPLE, and the same information you're giving them is the same information that led many of you on not-so-pleasant paths out of the church. They are not GAs or the prophet. They are followers, just like some of you once were.

The deal is that some of you haven't dealt with your anger over "being decieved", so you take it out on that which represents to you, the deception.

Post by **_Chap** » Wed May 07, 2008 5:44 pm

Sam Harris wrote:Another person's life and spiritual path are not a game at all.

In that case the CoJCoLDS should cease its missionary programme, which is designed specifically to interfere deeply in other persons' "life and spiritual path" by turning them into LDS. And it seems, from missionary and other accounts on this board and elsewhere, that the CoJCoLDS specifically targets the inadequate and those going through life crises that render them vulnerable.

A little guerrilla action designed to sow a little doubt in the minds of those charged with that mission may save some unfortunate from wasting years of their life on a cult.

Post by **_Chap** » Wed May 07, 2008 5:48 pm

RockHeaded wrote:
Boaz & Lidia wrote:
RockHeaded wrote:Got a question. Is there a marriage license for Joseph Smith and Hellen Kimball?
yes there is.

Where?

Why are you asking? Do you doubt the information on the genealogy site maintained by devout members of the church? I really hope not ...

Seeing that marriage license is not necessary to your salvation. In any case, I have a spiritual witness that is far more reliable than any paper license. You are relying on the arm of flesh. Pray, fast, and study the scriptures, and the Spirit will answer your question.