My fear: being wrong about whether the church is true or not

[_moksha]

Grant Palmer is a very poor historian.

If only the five reviews on Grant Palmer at FAIR could have repeated this point, and left all the other stuff out. If you say it enough times and with proper breathing technique, you could float away into apologetic bliss....

[_antishock8]

Well, I was right. He didn't list: Joseph Smith. I mean, after all, if LoaP really believed the Book of Mormon was historical, then without a doubt Joseph Smith would be, hands down, the greatest historian in, well, history. This is very telling that none of the Mormons perusing this thread even thought to list him. Think about that. The Book of Mormon should be the greatest historical discovery ever. Yet, no one thought to list Joseph Smith. Very, very, very telling...

[_Maxrep]

talk it over with God.

It used to just be Nehor that spoke with God. But now with Verizons expanded network, I get three bars when dialing Kolob....can you hear me now?

Seriously, "Talk it over With God" is the crux of the problem. I don't know that there is much of a difference between "talking" to yourself and "talking" to God.

[_Mercury]

But now with Verizons expanded network, I get three bars when dialing Kolob....can you hear me now?

LMFAO!!!!1111!!!

[_Mister Scratch]

Ms. Scratch:

Quinn acted the part of historian, but in an all-too-obvious manner.

Huh? What does that even mean? Are you saying that Quinn should have acted like a "fake" historian, ala certain FARMS authors?

From my recollection (it's been a while) his selective use of sources and interpretation of data are lacing, he does not present an open-shut case.

"Open-shut" case for what? Differing attitudes towards homosexuality? Further, the "selective use of sources" bit is constantly trotted out by FARMS authors, and acolytes of FARMS authors. If you cannot actually substantiate and back up this claim, my dear LoaP, then why bother proffering it in the first place? Do you not recall the endless "calling out" that you and Prof. P. engaged in when Yme failed to provide substantiation for his/her claims? Hmmmm? Now, you wouldn't want to be branded a hypocrite, now would you?

I will forgo a review for you, however, because I don't want to read through it again. I have other Quinn books and articles which I thought were adequate. But his SSD was weak in my opinion.

Yes, and we can see that you find it "weak" for reasons you cannot and/or will not substantiate. Way to go!

[_msnobody]

You know, LDS and missionaries always have spouted to me that the LDS doesn't have a Hell like evangelicals believe, but let a LDS leave the church and become apostate, and it seems suddenly a Hell exists.

[Guest]

Since we're all discussing fears...


My biggest fear is being wrong about whether or not the church is true and if God exists or not. I suppose this fear has been engrained in me on purpose, but it is very powerful.

And having come to the conclusion that the church is not true, but still not 100% sure (maybe I could be wrong), the consequences of my being wrong could be eternal and disastrous.

Same with God. I really want to believe in a God, but just don't know how it could be true, and if there is a God and I don't believe anymore -- then I'm in big trouble, right?

And if I decide to believe because I'm afraid I'll be wrong, then my fear is that I'll go through the rest of my life brainwashed and being controlled by others.

These are big fears. The evidence suggests it's not true - but what if it is?

Does anyone else struggle with these fears?

Coke

So let's say your fears are all true....

Let's say there is a God and the LDS Church is the ONE TRUE path to the Celestial Kingdom.

Do you REALLY think a loving God is so narrow and would lock out wonderful beings who were once Mother Theresa, Dali Lama, Pope John Paul II, those who died for their faith (whatever their faith was)? What about some of us humble schmucks who lived simple, but worthy lives? Even if all listed refused their baptism for the dead? Truly? You believe God would really forbid their entrance into His presence?

I just cannot fathom a compassionate and loving "Him" stomping on the wonderful fingers of valiant beings as they try to claim their rightful place into the CK just because they were not LDS. What a ridiculous thought, in my opinion.

Fear and anger are poisons we have bought into by all the "rules" of the organized religion. Discard these toxins and in the "present moment" fill the space with deep love and compassion for others, and especially yourself.
I believe the Being I call God is more like that.

[_Gazelam]

You know, LDS and missionaries always have spouted to me that the LDS doesn't have a Hell like evangelicals believe, but let a LDS leave the church and become apostate, and it seems suddenly a Hell exists.

The weeping, the wailing, the gnashing of teeth ?

I can see where thay are coming from, but I think this would not be so bad if they were able to rely on the Holy Ghost more. I think they either forget the witness they had, or they somehow disregard the witness they once had. They explain it away or something. Im not sure.

I do understand it, but I think its sad.

[_Sethbag]

I have a fear, that if the LDS church were actually true, then that would mean god exists, and he's one seriously twisted dude.

It's also possible that some things inside Mormonism are universally true, but that their notion of God is incorrect. There are enough things about Mormonism that can falsify its origins on its face; that doesn't mean that some principles to which they adhere ("Love your neighbor," for example) aren't universally "true" (whatever that means).

I sort of reject the notion of something being "true," because it's misleading language. A church can be the legitimate heir of a particular tradition, I suppose, but that doesn't necessarily make it God's mouthpiece, or even make God exist.

I couldn't help but quote this entire post and adding not much more than "me too!" I think this was an exactly post, TRTH. The LDS church is an "authentic" church, just like the Catholic church is an authentic, legitimately ancient church. None of this means that their particular belief system is rooted in reality and truth.

The LDS church has served several generations of members, and many of them have died fairly happy and contented and in faith of some future reward according to LDS theology. I suppose there is some utility in that. It comes at a cost of some very unfortunate baggage, however, both intellectual and historical, and also is simply manmade, like every other church.

To any lurkers out there who may be questioning, you should know this: the LDS church is a manmade organization, just like every other of the thousands of churches out there, and a more extensive analysis of various doctrinal and historical evidences will reveal this, to an open mind, to be true.

[_Sethbag]

Indeed, fellowshipping the former Mormons is vital to their success.

Tick, tock LOAP. The clock is still ticking on your membership. It's only a matter of time before you let go of the last barrier keeping you from admitting to yourself that you've been on the wrong side of the argument all this time. The LDS church is a manmade institution, just like all the other churches out there, and one of these days you're going to finally let that sink in, you will feel the pit in your stomach as it finally dawns on you, and becomes clearer, that the LDS church's claims and promises and portrayal of the afterlife and whatnot are just inventions of the human imagination. It will suck to be you for a while, but eventually you'll get over it. This will happen, guaranteed.