Sam Harris wrote:Jersey Girl, I will keep this short.
I saw the initial thread in which B&L acted with utter glee that he could go online and chat with missionaries. He is doing so in order to harass Mormons. His posts clearly state that, but I understand why he is defended.
You say that you understand why he is defended and yet, you don't say why. So tell me, why is he defended?
What I do not understand is why it is ok to continue to dwell on what the church did to you, but if you take the same actions that go on here and apply it to any other demographic, it's not ok.
If you're talking about Porter, maybe he had a recent reminder of what the church did to him.
You make a strange statement. "But if you take the same actions that go on here and apply it to any other demographic, it's not okay."
What are you thinking about? What you wrote next?
Mormons have the same cultural and social problems as many other groups. Why single them out? It would not be okay for me to go up to the average black person in the projects and proceed to "talk" to them with the intent to "educate", knowing that my thoughts deemed them less than me for the choices they've made. It is not ok for me to put them in situations that would embarrass them or demean them (oh, but you don't know that happened!!!), because I made different choices that put me in a different place in my life.
You're asking me why single out Mormons on a discussion board titled "Mormon Discussions" based on a post made regarding interaction with Mormon missionaries? The answer should be obvious.
I have plenty of statistic family members that I could apply the same logic used here to. I could argue with them, I could tell them how they're living their life in the "wrong" way, I could go on and on. And it wouldn't be worth a damn, if they themselves had not come to the conclusion on their own that a change was needed. So I let them sit in the victim mentality of how all white people are out to get them, I let them stay on public assistance that they don't need, and that I won't get (childcare vouchers) when my baby is born. I let them continue in their lives, because it is theirs, and no thought or opinion of mine is going to change theirs until they are ready and open to recieve the information that I have.
Nothing in Porter's comments indicate that he told the missionary that he/she was living their life in the "wrong" way. Does it occur to you that Porter's interaction with the missionaries could lead to further research on their part that would allow them to make a choice regarding their membership/activity if they saw fit? Porter didn't share his "thoughts and opinions". He shared
facts.Yes, many of you on here have found a better way. But you fail to understand that some people don't want your better way, and you need to back off.
Porter didn't share a "better way". He shared
facts. I don't think that many people here are that concerned for LDS. I really do not. I think there is a lot of bitterness about past experiences, and people are using "concern" as an excuse. You go up to people who may not even be expecting you to, and proceed to tell them things from your point of view (I'm speaking in general to the exmo who feels his POV is the "right" one), as if they need to hear you.
You're asking people to mindread others regarding what they expect. Porter didn't share a POV, he shared
facts. The facts that he shared aren't "right" or "wrong". They were factual.
It is my belief that no one individual, or even the group on here who wish to are going to make the LDS church fall. I'm sorry, it's not going to happen. Sure, things are changing, but it will take many many more years, if not generations. Face that.
That it could take "many many more years" is not relevant to people sharing facts in the hopes of change. That change does occur, is what is relevant.
To me, it is ok to go up to a person who is actively questioning and seeking, or even a person who is investigating and talk to them. But it is not okay to take a happy person and disillusion them because you think it is right. Please, let's have a tally of folks on this board who have not one illusion in life.
The "happy person" is a missionary voluntarily manning an online chat forum. If Christ operated by your mindset, he would have let humankind remain in their "illusions" and the cross would never have happened.
I do not approve of or agree with messing with another person's life path. Period. There is a lesson to be learned in every step we take, and it is not up to any of you to determine the order of someone else's steps. Leave them be and let them figure it out on their own. If they are meant to learn the "truth of the church", then they will do so. Like I said before, it's amazing how those on here who don't believe in God and are most vehement about that like to play God.
A person's life path? To use a typical EV analogy. If Porter saw a train coming full speed at a person (missionary) he shouldn't try to shove them off the track? People don't "figure it out on their own", Sam. They figure it out from being presented with facts. What if Porter isn't "playing God"? What if Porter is
being used by God?
According to the Bible, Jesus hung on a cross in order to "mess with" people's life path.
But I know I'm in the minority, so I'll leave it be. Romper room wins. I just know that I'd be so much less of a person if I took every LDS friend I had, many of whom have been so good to me, tending to me when I was ill, feeding me, praying with me, and pump up a debate, based on what I've seen and experienced. What you don't know, is I've had my conversations with all of my friends, they know why I left. I am not about to upset the pattern of their life based on my beliefs. They are stable, happy, and highly intelligent individuals. I am not messing with that.
Well maybe you should mess with it.
And I'll never do it with any other Mormon. If they openly say they're questioning, we can talk. But until that point is reached, I'll mind my own business.
Seriously, this thread isn't about what
you would do. It's about what Porter did. He shared facts.