Fun w/ online missionaries: NY TIMES on 14 year old bride!

[_RockHeaded]

For the record, as Shades pointed out, I do NOT believe Joseph Smith had more than one wife. I don't care what the Utah Church claims.

Joseph Smith had one wife, and yes I do believe there was a license for that marriage.

For these other wives that are claimed to be Josephs, there were not Temple records of these marriages, no license. I know the obvious explaination is because it's kept secrete. The problem is, Joseph Smith always spoke out against polygamy, was excommunicating polygamists, and was involved in a defamation of charactor lawsuit against a lawyer who claimed Joseph was a polygamist. The suit never went to court because he was killed.

I know Todd Compton, we emailed back and forth for quite a while. I know he did a lot of research and was very sincere in his work. Unfortunately he discounts contradictions and uses the conclusions that best went along with his beliefs. I know he made claims that Joseph Smith had some children with these wives, one of them he was certain of. The Utah Church has been trying to find these decendants of Joseph Smith through DNA. Thus far they haven't found any, which should raise some sort of questions from those that claimed Joseph Smith had some children from these marriages, shouldn't it? They will never find polygamist decendants from Joseph Smith becuase he didn't have these wives. It just didn't happen.

When I have time I think maybe a thread about section 132 should be posted. Joseph Smith couldn't have written it, God couldn't have given it. Joseph Smith never has contradicted himself, why would he with 132? And why that one occasion? It doesn't add up.

RockHeaded

So you are saying that Joseph Smith neither taught nor practised polygamy, right? Please confirm.

Who started LDS polygamy, then, in your opinion? Brigham Young? If not, who, and when?

These are straight questions - no ironic intent.

That is what I am saying, he never taught it, never practiced it, nor condoned it. Brigham Young brought it in. That is why Emma Smith hated him so much. If Joseph Smith hadn't been killed he most likely would have ousted Brigham Young as well.

RH: Would you really give Todd Comptom (a still-faithful Latter-day Saint) a fair hearing (specifically in his tome In Sacred Loneliness)? Compton's research has been manifestly rejected by Utah Mormon apologetic endeavors. Interestingly, while they paint Compton's near-immaculate research as flawed by unwarranted speculation, they [I.e., Anderson, Faulring, and Bachman] don't disagree with one of Compton's historically-manifest givens: that Joseph Smith has multiple wives.

You can find Compton's response to his Utah LDS interlocutors here: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/7207/rev.html.

I hope Compton's response will soon find a broader audience, at least among those who are interested. I've got it nearly typeset for publication as I type this, though Compton knows nothing of that at present. Of course, I won't proceed without his approval, but I needn't even do so, given that his response is available to you now via the provided link.

Chris

As I have said before, Todd Compton and I emailed back and forth for quite some time. I have his book, I read it before he and I started exchanging emails. I still have all the emails on my old lap top. I like him and feel that he was very sincere in what he wrote. It disapointed me some that he never mentioned the contradictions in these stories. I know that he gave his views and was honest with how he felt things happened. But as I've said before it's hard for me to believe. Here you have all of these woman claiming to be his wives, there are no children (which was what section 132 says this is all about). Emma Smith wouldn't have allowed this, she hated it and that is why she hated Brigham Young. I think going over section 132 is a good place to start.

[_Sethbag]

But as I've said before it's hard for me to believe. Here you have all of these woman claiming to be his wives, there are no children (which was what section 132 says this is all about). Emma Smith wouldn't have allowed this, she hated it and that is why she hated Brigham Young. I think going over section 132 is a good place to start.

What you're missing in all of this is that you're assuming that Joseph was actually a good man and husband and that he respected what Emma thought about things. This is where you're mistaken. Joseph cheated on Emma through his practice of secret, fake "marriages" many, many times. Any idea why Emma is threatened with destruction in section 132 if she didn't accept Joseph's polygamy? What, exactly does the following verse from section 132 mean if Joseph hadn't already been practicing polygamy?

52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

Who were the "all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph", if in fact he had not been practicing polygamy? That verse is in the past tense, RockHeaded. Past tense, as in "this already happened". What does this mean if you believe that Joseph never practiced polygamy? Who, exactly, was Emma being commanded to receive?

[_Trevor]

Never proven false in a court of law. The court of law found that Joseph Smith was not a polygamist, non-biased court. The evidence (as I've stated before) has been contradicted so many times by those that made the evidence. Joseph Smith, Emma Smith, and Hyrum for that matter never contradicted their stories. I still find it hard to believe why it is so easy to believe people that contradict each other, and themselves, over someone that tells us the same thing. The CofC is a joke, what ever it is they believe this week may be different next week. They are just trying to get accepted in the world community of churches or whatever it is they call that.

If your standard for determining the truth, i.e. the facts, is the determination of a court of law, then you are being naïve to say the least.

[_Trevor]

As I have said before, Todd Compton and I emailed back and forth for quite some time. I have his book, I read it before he and I started exchanging emails. I still have all the emails on my old lap top. I like him and feel that he was very sincere in what he wrote. It disapointed me some that he never mentioned the contradictions in these stories. I know that he gave his views and was honest with how he felt things happened. But as I've said before it's hard for me to believe. Here you have all of these woman claiming to be his wives, there are no children (which was what section 132 says this is all about). Emma Smith wouldn't have allowed this, she hated it and that is why she hated Brigham Young. I think going over section 132 is a good place to start.

So you contend that there is enough contradictory evidence out there to negate every positive finding that Joseph Smith married multiple women? As I see it, there is far too much evidence that he did practice polygamy to find refuge in a few scraps of contradiction. Let me ask you this: do you believe that Joseph Smith was ever unfaithful to Emma?