This is a new one to me...

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_Scottie
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Post by _Scottie »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:
Who Knows wrote:In RSR, Bushman had a section on the kirtland bank, but didn't even bring this up. It was all a scam regardless of whether this little story actually happened.


On what pages does Bushman cover this particular bank issue?


Methinks you need some new reading glasses.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
_LifeOnaPlate
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Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Scottie wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:
Who Knows wrote:In RSR, Bushman had a section on the kirtland bank, but didn't even bring this up. It was all a scam regardless of whether this little story actually happened.


On what pages does Bushman cover this particular bank issue?


Methinks you need some new reading glasses.


I'm talking about the Kirtland Bank issue, there, partner.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_cksalmon
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Post by _cksalmon »

Coach T wrote:I'll listen to just about any criticism of the church and Joseph, but your sources are, at best, dubious and outright slander at worst. Come up with some other source of material to justify your hatred of the church. These sources have been around for years. This is not some groundbreaking new thing here.


Good grief, chief.

They're Brodie's sources. And the fact that the sources have been "around for years" has no bearing on whether or not the story is true. In fact, the longer they've been around, all other things being equal, the more likely they are to be accurate.

And the Kirtland Safety Society [Anti-] Banking Company was an illegal sham, a colossal failure, and the cause of Joseph Smith's having to flee the scene posthaste in order to avoid mob justice.

Wilford Woodruff recorded in his journal that Joseph Smith had received an audible revelation from God sanctioning the formation of the illegal "bank."

How ironic, then, that Joseph Smith, writing in the Messenger and Advocate (3:560) shortly after the Society's ruin, had this to say:
"To the brethren and friends of the church of Latter Day Saints [Sorry, Floyd--this must not have been the true church], I am disposed to say a word relative to the bills of the Kirtland Safety Society Bank. I hereby warn them to beware of speculators, renegades and gamblers, who are duping the unsuspecting and the unwary, by palming upon them, those bills, which are of no worth here. I discountenance and disapprove of any and all such practices. I know them to be detrimental to the best interests of society, as well as to the principles of religion. - JOSEPH SMITH Jun."


The entire debacle might have been avoided had Smith simply obeyed the law. Maybe the legislature that denied the permit request in the first place had "the best interests of society" in view, a perspective Smith would only come to share after his illegal venture financially ruined folks and caused his name to be had for evil, even--I believe, primarily--amongst many of his former followers.

Whether or not the incident Wyl reports is factual or not, KSSABC was, again, an illegal sham and a colossal failure, though one ostensibly precipitated by divine revelation.

Chris
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Here is the excerpt from the Wyl book:

But instead of receiving their 'inheritances,' the Saints had to buy them, and at good round prices, too. Joseph played auctioneer, and a very good auctioneer he was. The Saints were full of enthusiasm and lots went up from a hundred dollars to three and four thousand. This transaction brought some money into Joseph's capacious pockets and he now began to think of starting a bank in Kirtland. It was to be secured by real estate; but this was never done. They went to New York and had notes engraved, beautiful notes, the finest I had ever seen. In the bank they kept eight or nine window-glass boxes, which seemed to be full of silver; but the initiated knew very well that they were full of sand, only the top being covered with Accent pieces. The effect of those boxes was like magic; they created general confidence in the solidity of the bank, and that beautiful paper money went like hot cakes. For about a month it was the best money in the country. But the crash came soon, as everybody knows.
(p. 36)

You can read the entire thing here:

http://olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1886WWyl.htm

This excerpt comes from interviews that Wyl apparently conducted with people who were there at the time. I guess I am wondering why the TBMs are so quick to discount what appear to be eyewitness accounts. I mean, should we ditch the eyewitness accounts of the Book of Mormon for the same reasons? Or is the rejection happening simply because Wyl seems to have a slightly jaundiced view of Mormonism?
_Who Knows
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Post by _Who Knows »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:
Scottie wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:
Who Knows wrote:In RSR, Bushman had a section on the kirtland bank, but didn't even bring this up. It was all a scam regardless of whether this little story actually happened.


On what pages does Bushman cover this particular bank issue?


Methinks you need some new reading glasses.


I'm talking about the Kirtland Bank issue, there, partner.


I don't know. Go look it up if you have the book. Otherwise, i'll try to remember to look it up sometime this weekend. Are you doubting this or something?
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_Scottie
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Post by _Scottie »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:I'm talking about the Kirtland Bank issue, there, partner.

Yipee Kayay, muthaf***er!! :)
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Scottie wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:I'm talking about the Kirtland Bank issue, there, partner.

Yipee Kayay, muthaf***er!! :)


Thank you for that uplifting sentiment, Bruce.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Scottie
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Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:54 pm

Post by _Scottie »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Scottie wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:I'm talking about the Kirtland Bank issue, there, partner.

Yipee Kayay, muthaf***er!! :)


Thank you for that uplifting sentiment, Bruce.

It's McClain to you, sweetheart!! ;)
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
_Jersey Girl
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Posts: 34407
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Scottie wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
Scottie wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:I'm talking about the Kirtland Bank issue, there, partner.

Yipee Kayay, muthaf***er!! :)


Thank you for that uplifting sentiment, Bruce.

It's McClain to you, sweetheart!! ;)


It's Jersey Girl to you, McClain.

:-D

(He's a JB, ya know)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
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