For Gaz..Struggling Believers' Polygamy Discussion cont.

[_Gazelam]

Liz,

When I have prayed about it, the answer that I have always received is that there are a lot of misconceptions surrounding this issue, and that there will be a lot of people who are surprised at what really occurs in the next life. I have had the distinct feeling that plural marriage is definitely NOT a requirement....that those plural families who are eternally sealed, and wish to remain so, will be honored....However, monogamy will be the "norm", and that the definition of celestial marriage is a temple marriage, PERIOD. In other words, as long as you are sealed to your spouse, that entitles you to all of the blessings associated with the CK.

What you say is backed up by Bruce R McConkie.

Plural Marriage is not essential to salvation or exaltation. Nephi and his people were denied the power to have more than one wife and yet they could gain every blessing in eternity that the Lord ever offered to any people. in our day, the Lord summarized by revelation the whole doctrine of exaltation and predicated it upon the marriage of one man to one woman. (D&C 132:1-28.) Thereafter he added the principles relative to plurality of wives with the express stipulation that any such marriages would be valid only if authorized by the president of the Church. (D&C 132:7, 29-66.)

[_Yoda]

Liz,

When I have prayed about it, the answer that I have always received is that there are a lot of misconceptions surrounding this issue, and that there will be a lot of people who are surprised at what really occurs in the next life. I have had the distinct feeling that plural marriage is definitely NOT a requirement....that those plural families who are eternally sealed, and wish to remain so, will be honored....However, monogamy will be the "norm", and that the definition of celestial marriage is a temple marriage, PERIOD. In other words, as long as you are sealed to your spouse, that entitles you to all of the blessings associated with the CK.

What you say is backed up by Bruce R McConkie.

Plural Marriage is not essential to salvation or exaltation. Nephi and his people were denied the power to have more than one wife and yet they could gain every blessing in eternity that the Lord ever offered to any people. in our day, the Lord summarized by revelation the whole doctrine of exaltation and predicated it upon the marriage of one man to one woman. (D&C 132:1-28.) Thereafter he added the principles relative to plurality of wives with the express stipulation that any such marriages would be valid only if authorized by the president of the Church. (D&C 132:7, 29-66.)

Wow! Thanks for the reference, Gaz! :)

[_Gazelam]

Liz,

Wow! Thanks for the reference, Gaz! :)

ooops. Heres the reference: Mormon Doctrine, Plural Marriage pg. 578-579

[_Black Moclips]

Just to jump in here a second. The problem is that early polygamists leaders taught that it was essential to exaltation. Originally Celestial Marriage=Plural Marriage, there was no difference between the two. I once read an article that outlined how those terms changed in meaning over the years. It wasn't until the church dropped polygamy all together that the meanings separated. So now we say that it isn't required, however, that wasn't always the case. Anyway, sorry to interrupt.

[_Yoda]

Just to jump in here a second. The problem is that early polygamists leaders taught that it was essential to exaltation. Originally Celestial Marriage=Plural Marriage, there was no difference between the two. I once read an article that outlined how those terms changed in meaning over the years. It wasn't until the church dropped polygamy all together that the meanings separated. So now we say that it isn't required, however, that wasn't always the case. Anyway, sorry to interrupt.

You are NOT interrupting. ;)

Welcome to the thread! :)

This is exactly why I feel that the early prophets were simply wrong on this issue. Polygamy was a tolerated cultural norm of the Old Testament that had no place being reinstituted. Whether this was done intentionally and maliciously, I suppose we won't truly know until the next life. I hope, for Joseph and Brigham's sake, that it truly was a tragic misunderstanding.

That's why I think that there are some families that will remain plural BY CHOICE in the next life, but monogamy is definitively the norm.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Liz...

I had a very powerful experience as a believer, in the temple, after fasting about this topic that confirmed to me that Polygamy was not of God, but of man.

I was pleading to God to help me accept this principle and it was confirmed in my heart, VERY clearly and powerfully that it has nothing to do with God, it is an abomination. Period.

What I now find so odd is that, here I was trying (really praying) to alter my intuition, my integrity, my understanding of holiness and love to accept something that I found cruel and disgusting. I thought there was something wrong with me... Gosh this sort of things screws with one's mind.

That's why I think that there are some families that will remain plural BY CHOICE in the next life, but monogamy is definitively the norm.

Do you think God is a polygamist?

If a woman had a husband die and remarried, do you think she will be with both husbands as well?

:-)

~dancer~

[_Yoda]

Hi Liz...

I had a very powerful experience as a believer, in the temple, after fasting about this topic that confirmed to me that Polygamy was not of God, but of man.

I was pleading to God to help me accept this principle and it was confirmed in my heart, VERY clearly and powerfully that it has nothing to do with God, it is an abomination. Period.

What I now find so odd is that, here I was trying (really praying) to alter my intuition, my integrity, my understanding of holiness and love to accept something that I found cruel and disgusting. I thought there was something wrong with me... Gosh this sort of things screws with one's mind.

That's why I think that there are some families that will remain plural BY CHOICE in the next life, but monogamy is definitively the norm.

Do you think God is a polygamist?

If a woman had a husband die and remarried, do you think she will be with both husbands as well?

:-)

~dancer~

No, I don't think that God is a polygamist. The reason I made the comment I did, was because I don't think that God would be cruel based on man's mistake. In other words, if there are families who are sealed together in a plural situation who honestly love each other and want to remain together, I don't see the Lord as being someone who would rip them apart from each other. I think there would be an option for every woman to have a husband of their own, if they so chose. If the WANTED to all remain with the husband they were sealed to, that would be their choice.

And, yes, I think that if a woman has a husband die, and remarries, that the option to be with both husbands will be available.

[_Yoda]

I guess my point with this is that in the eternal perspective, I see these optional relationships involving plural marriage as the exception rather than the sought-after rule.

And, apparently, according to Gaz, I have at least one modern prophet who agrees with me. ;)

[_Roger Morrison]

I honestly do not know how best to respond in this discussion. Other than to say, "I must." And that is with respect for everyone who has posted before me. (TD's the one to follow. She's got it in-line :-)

While i can relate to the sentiment of "hope" for, and "faith" in another existance--Heavenly in the case of LDS believers in the teachings of traditional Christianity as it has been expanded by their leaders--it is with sincere sympathy.

To be invested in such a venture, is as staking claim to property on the Moon. Kolob/Heaven only exists in the minds of those infatuated with that fantasy. A fantastical, utopian hope/belief that seems intended to have made this life worth living. If that helps one through mortality, so be it. It is the same pretention a child holds as they look forward to enjoying Christmas and Santa Claus. So be it.

However, for the benefit of humanity now, and their progeny to come, it is essential that those ancient tales be seen as the baseless, unfounded mythology that it is. Let it go!

There are tested and proven priciples to live by in this mortality that will bring-to-pass-a-fullness-of-life here and now for the wise. Further, such awareness and practice of these principles will eventually repair the damage done to our universe, and its inhabitants by our ancestors and we who remain in the-ways-of-our-fathers. (Bless/forgive them, they knew not what they did.)

We should, as many do, know that "God" is helpless without us. Ya gotta get the horse before the cart... Warm regards, Roger

[_Yoda]

There are tested and proven priciples to live by in this mortality that will bring-to-pass-a-fullness-of-life here and now for the wise

I completely agree with this.

Since I haven't died yet, I have no idea what, if anything, exists in the hereafter. (And, frankly, I hope I'm around HERE a lot longer. I'm not just "chomping at the bit" to find out! LOL)

At the same time, I have had people who are dear to me who have passed away. Although I feel that I am fairly well-adjusted, and treasure their memory, I do, sincerely hope, that I am able to spend time with these people again.

And, whether real or imagined, when I have had tough circumstances in my life, I have felt their presence during these key moments.

Since I am still very tied to the LDS faith through family, yes, the LDS gospel is my point of reference. However, I suppose my point in all of this is that I think we all need to look at things in a little less "black and white" way when it comes to what will happen in the next life, because none of us will really know with certainty until we get there. ;)