YOU TOO can be a sexual predator / prophet!

[Guest]

This conversation I had a while back has been bothering me for a while, rattling around in my mind, so I figured I'd let it out now so it bothers you too, or I bother you, one or the other, or maybe both. :)

My friend and 'phood authority bigwig' met with me a while back to chat about my issues.

He confirmed that the issues that can be found online and in anti-Mormon books etc. are NOT 'anti-Mormon' so much as they are actually 'true Mormon history' and 99.99% accurate.

NOTE: This 'revelation' helped my wife move from a place of it's all made up Satanic lies and that I (RE) am the only problem (a common theme I've been reading here lately from other 'venters' whose spouses view them as under the spell of Satan), to the place where she can now 'see, admit and talk' (in small non-confrontational non-argumentative doses) about the fact that the CHURCH is the problem, that Joseph Smith was / is the problem and that the issues are indeed 100% REAL. (Thanks be to Rod for that!).

SIDE TRACK: The sad thing (in my view) is that she needed someone in authority to admit the issues are ‘real’ before she'd believe them as 'real' and not 'lies of Satan' (her words, not mine). I think that's pretty common thinking in the stop-think group-think cult-like child-like belief that certain 'depressed / never good enough' personalities develop within the LDS worldview. Most TBM LDS women ***and some men, though I do think it affects women more than men...could though just be that I've mainly been dealing with it with my wife though...yes, I can see this is sexist thinking...***, I believe, take what I call the “you can never win stance” (YCNWS).

It’s like this: let’s say you, DH, had a super spiritual experience where Tom Cruise appeared to you in a vision and now you wanted to join Scientology and felt and believed it was THE True Church on Earth. Your my wife TBM spouse however disagrees and sees many issues with 'Tomology'. You say to your my wife: “I will believe there are issues with Scientology, IF you can prove to me, out of SCIENTOLOGY PUBLISHED & APPROVED BOOKS, that it’s not true and or that it has issues”. It’s the same for LDS issues, the TBM spouse will NOT believe there are issues because the LDS Church hides, edits, changes and or deletes the issues right out of the history books and teaching manuals and only gives half-truths and the philosophies of men, mingled with scriptures as ‘truth’ (hmmmm…now where have I heard that before…?) Since the God of Truth who cannot lie is leading the Church and since 1+1 = 2, therefore any issues spoken of about the Church are lies of Satan and whoever believes them must be under Satan's spell.

BACK ON TRACK: He further suggested that the gospel foundation was all that mattered and that 100% of what was above that foundation could indeed be removed, rebuilt and or adjusted (ie. Prophets, Joseph Smith, doctrine, teachings, polygamy, scriptures, everything and anything LDS or gospel related). The foundation being: Jesus, love, forgiveness, baptism, atonement.

He in essence, like my my wife, removed all issues in one fell cog-dizzying swoop via saying ‘Jesus is all that matters, man.’ (paraphrased).


Among the dozens of issues he quickly covered in cog-dizzying and Jeff Lindsay fashion, he said:

- Book of Mormon plates…not actually needed other than to show to Joseph Smith that they were real.

- Book of Abraham papyri…not real writings of Abraham, only needed to facilitate revelation of what we today needed to know about Abraham

- Polygamy is taught today and is doctrinal and if you can't handle it, get out of the Church.

- Yes, the prophets lie on national TV about what we believe and teach, in order to ‘protect the innocent’.

- Yes, the prophets lie to us in our manuals and in general conference, ie. 1890 being the last year we had anything to do with polygamy, to ‘protect the innocent’.

- Did BY authorize MMM...probably. Will he have to pay the price for that? Absolutely.


MY MAJOR ‘A-HA, SO THIS IS THE COG-DIS WALL’ MOMENT:

He stated: “Since Emma was upset with Joseph Smith for his polygamy and wasn't likely supplying his sexual needs, Joseph Smith went out and found a means to meet his sexual needs - 14 year old girls [with collusion and coercion and all that makes statutory rape today], other teens, 19 year old Nancy Rigdon's proposal, etc.”

I then stated that to me this was clear cut cult-leader-like sexual exploitation of followers and sexual predation.

Then he stated: "How do YOU know that YOU wouldn't resort to the exact same things if you were asked to be the prophet and bring back polygamy and if your wife wasn't meeting your needs sexually?"

I was, and still am, speechless at the absolute utter uselessness of talking about the issues (even issues that are acknowledged to be as serious and real as sexual predation on the part of Joseph Smith!). It’s like a light bulb went on and I could see what others here had been saying all along: talking about the issues to someone with a TBM mindset won’t get you anywhere. There 1st has to be a willingness to suspend belief and listen on their parts...and the cog-dis they have generally won't let them do it.

There are no fetching issues if we can view Joseph Smith being a sexual predator on the one hand and on the other hand view the God of Heaven and Earth restoring his One True Gospel and One True and Living Church via said sexual predator! Like the Vogons in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy: “Resistance is useless” (Discussion is Useless).

My my wife was floored at this ‘revelation’ and confirmation by our 'phood authority' of what I’d been saying for the past several months. She was greatly put out that by his admission the facts are indeed, the facts. It now makes ALL of the issues 'real and valid' to her (though, not a deal-breaker for Jesus still tells her to stand by Joseph and the Church).

She has for now retreated back to her testimony (though of her own admission, a now slightly dented testimony). Her initial words were actually “I can’t believe I’m signed up for this insanity”. The fog of cog-dis has somewhat settled back in, but I know the thinking, feeling and saner part of her mind is starting to get a foothold. In fact, I no longer see her eyes 'cloud over' in church when people start talking, the thinking part of her is more 'present'. And she is starting to read things that are bordering on what used to be quite 'questionable' (ie. Escape).

I realize she may never leave and I do realize I'm ok with that...well, far more ok than I've ever been with this thinking to date. Now she is willing to and wants our kids to read RSR (the copy with all of my 'notes' that point out the obvious issues within it that Bushman glances over) and Insider's View and share ALL of the issues with them. She does not want our kids to be hit with the issues as she (and I) have been, she does not want our kids to wonder why their parents lied to them and hid the truth from them (her words, not mine).

Just last week I helped her prepare her Relief Society lesson and helped her with her new found desire to ensure she didn't "teach anything that was overtly not-true".

Anyway…just thought I’d share the insanity of it all (it's OK that Joseph Smith was a sexual predator, maybe you would be too!), and also a bit of a ray of hope for me / my wife / my family, with ya’ll.

_________________
Reformed_Egyptian

[_Sethbag]

You should have asked your phood dude why it is that a 16-year old Priest in the LDS Church isn't "worthy" to bless the sacrament if he's been fulfilling his sexual needs solo, but the Lord would actually reveal and restore the entire church, reveal great truths, send angels and other visitations, etc. to a sexual predator who "fulfilled his sexual needs" with several dozen other women behind his wife's back. That is utterly mind-boggling.

Good luck with your wife, man. My own my wife was at one time influenced by the negative things about the history of the church, enough to cause doubt to enter her mind, and I think she seriously flirted with the idea of leaving the church, but as she's stayed active, and her mom got back from her mission to Africa, my wife has settled back into the mindset of "all these people can't be wrong" and retreated back to not wanting to know anything, not wanting to talk about anything, and just asserting that she has a testimony, etc. It's frustrating, to be sure.

[_Dr. Shades]

He stated: “Since Emma was upset with Joseph Smith for his polygamy and wasn't likely supplying his sexual needs, Joseph Smith went out and found a means to meet his sexual needs . . . Then he stated: "How do YOU know that YOU wouldn't resort to the exact same things if you were asked to be the prophet and bring back polygamy and if your wife wasn't meeting your needs sexually?"

Oh man, I am LOL! Now that's an apologetic that never dawned on me: Joseph Smith pursued polygamy so heavily because Emma wasn't meeting his sexual needs!

Ah yes, that makes it all okay! I've finally seen the light!

[_rcrocket]

The opening post appears to be in reformed Egyptian.

[_Dr. Shades]

The opening post appears to be in reformed Egyptian.

Then I recommend putting a seerstone into your top hat and reading it that way. It worked for Joseph Smith; why not you?

[_Reformed Egyptian]

You should have asked your phood dude why it is that a 16-year old Priest in the LDS Church isn't "worthy" to bless the sacrament if he's been fulfilling his sexual needs solo, but the Lord would actually reveal and restore the entire church, reveal great truths, send angels and other visitations, etc. to a sexual predator who "fulfilled his sexual needs" with several dozen other women behind his wife's back. That is utterly mind-boggling.

Good luck with your wife, man. My own my wife was at one time influenced by the negative things about the history of the church, enough to cause doubt to enter her mind, and I think she seriously flirted with the idea of leaving the church, but as she's stayed active, and her mom got back from her mission to Africa, my wife has settled back into the mindset of "all these people can't be wrong" and retreated back to not wanting to know anything, not wanting to talk about anything, and just asserting that she has a testimony, etc. It's frustrating, to be sure.

UTTERLY mind-boggling, insane and...yet...completely normal in the fog of cog-dis and TBMness. My friend mentioned above makes it work because if it's above the foundation, it simply doesn't matter. So, nothing matters and there are no issues which prove fraud or false or not God's true and living church (the SpiritTM can't be wrong...and 'living' means things can and do change). I frankly think he'd have eaten the applesauce with the Heaven's Gate folks.

I have another friend who makes it work by saying how wonderful it is that ALL we have to go on is FAITH that it's true for God gives us zero actual proof and tons of things that make reason stare to see if we'll still have FAITH.

As for me...for now...I live within the Matrix but am so not of the Matrix...and like Neo and Morpheus, I hope to eventually get a select few out of the Matrix (my family).

[_Sethbag]

It occurs to me that everything "above the foundation", according to your friend's definition, is also pretty much everything that differentiates the LDS church from every other church that believes in Jesus Christ.

So why isn't he a Catholic? Or a Baptist? Or a Methodist? They believe in Jesus Christ too. If that's all that's important, and everything "above the foundation" can be false, wrong, deceitful, fraudulent, etc., then why disqualify all the other Christian faiths?

This is a serious question. If everything "above the foundation" of Jesus Christ doesn't matter, then what can he still have against the Roman Catholic Church?

[_truth dancer]

Then he stated: "How do YOU know that YOU wouldn't resort to the exact same things if you were asked to be the prophet and bring back polygamy and if your wife wasn't meeting your needs sexually?"

Yeah, women were created to sexually service men, and if they do not fulfill their sexual needs at all time then husbands are commanded to go screw other women.

Yep, sounds like Joseph Smith, Abraham, BY, David, Solomon, and various other "great" religious and cult leaders. :-(

And believers wonder why the LDS church is viewed so negatively in the world.

Poor Emma, not only is she condemned by believers for leaving the church, not only did she have to put up with a philandering, promiscuous lying slimeball, now SHE is blamed for polygamy.

Amazing... seriously amazing!

~dancer~

[_LifeOnaPlate]

Is this next week's lesson plan for your Sunday School class?

[_Scottie]

The opening post appears to be in reformed Egyptian.

The OP is just a catalyst for The Book of Noah.