Brother Crockett vs...?

[_truth dancer]

Does anyone doubt that bob and coggins would object to their own wives and children being taken from them and "given" to some other man, to regard as HIS wife and children, if they were also worthy of inheriting the CK in the first place? Does anyone doubt that they would suffer the pangs of hell over such an abandonment and betrayal? So why do they not have the ability to exercise enough imagination to feel the empathy and compassion that would allow them to feel just a taste of that hell? And logically reject it as ungodly?

Hi Beastie,

I don't know... I certainly have wondered.

To be honest I have doubted the love and care some TBM men have for their wives and children.

The lack of compassion some men express towards those men whose wives and families were taken from them for eternity is nothing less than astounding as is their apparent willingness of some men to give up their wives and families to a prophet.

I hear TBM men so eager to get their harem that the feelings and concerns of their wives are not even on the radar.

And based on some TBM support of the practice of older men marrying young girls (Joseph Smith, BY, FLDS) I think many TBM men wouldn't even flinch at giving their daughters to be the twentieth wife of a sixty year old polygamous man.

It is as their own needs completely eliminate any concern or care for their families. They seem to think their ego and sexual needs are somehow of God.

I'm not saying all TBM men are like this... NOT AT ALL. Most TBM men in my experience have no idea Joseph Smith took the families of other men for ETERNITY, or married the wives of other men.

But many of those who do seem unfazed by the reality of what Joseph Smith did.

It may be that these TBM guys (I'm not talking about individual men here but TBM men who seem unfazed by Joseph Smith's practices), don't take the sealing seriously, but it may be that they don't really care all that much?

I don't know.

Maybe someone here could explain it?

~dancer~

[_truth dancer]

I think this is keen insight. I do not think it is as TD posited, that these men do not love their wives or families.

Do you really think BY loved all his wives? Really? Do you think Joseph Smith really deeply loved (not to be confused with, was attracted to), all the girls and women he "married?"

I do not think most in the 19th century were like that. Henry Jacobs certainly adored Zina it seems, at least based on his letters.

I agree that Henry loved his wife and suffered his whole life because of what Joseph Smith did to his family.

Modern day LDS men really see this in the abstract for the most part. It is not real in the here and now.

Why don't some TBM men seem to even remotely have compassion for Henry and others whose wife and children were taken from him for eternity? Why do some men not like the idea of another man having sex with his wife but are totally fine with the idea that a priesthood leaders can take her, along with their children for ETERNITY?

How do they explain this as of God?

Oh there may be a few who look forward to many wives in the eternal realm. I do not think most do and most don't give it much thought. If they do they call it a hard doctrine, like Coggins has here and attribute the acceptance of it to might faith. They believe that our eyes will be opened to greater understanding and we will be able to live in such a way if asked to do so in Heaven. Even Charity takes this position and talks about it being a true act of love.

How does the fact that Joseph Smith took the wives and children of other men for eternity even remotely speak of true acts of love?

I do believe that it comes down to faith... faith in Joseph Smith.

If he wants one's wife and daughter for his own wives, no problem. If he wants to take your family for eternity, well OK then.

:-(

~dancer~

[_Jason Bourne]

Hi Jason,

I think much of what he brought was good and inspiring.

What specifically do you think Joseph Smith brought that was good and inspiring?



~dancer~

Don't mean to derail this thread but am curious... :-)

I really like the Book of Mormon.

I like that it clarifies issues that have been debated for year in Christianity. Issues such as free will vs. predestination, the idea that opposition teaches us, the idea the mercy of Christ over powers justice.

I like the idea that we, what we are, our intelligences, have existed forever.

I like the idea of eternal progression and that we can become like God

The idea that God may have been moral is intriguing though in some ways the idea that God was mortal in the person of Jesus Christ is not new to Christianity.

Being with my beloved wife forever, being with my family forever and having those relationships stick is wonderful.

I think the teaching on what the Godhead is makes more sense then the creeds of traditional Christianity.

I like the idea that God has not ended the Canon with the Bible.

[_the road to hana]

Hi Jason,

I think much of what he brought was good and inspiring.

What specifically do you think Joseph Smith brought that was good and inspiring?



~dancer~

Don't mean to derail this thread but am curious... :-)

I really like the Book of Mormon.

I like that it clarifies issues that have been debated for year in Christianity. Issues such as free will vs. predestination, the idea that opposition teaches us, the idea the mercy of Christ over powers justice.

And whether or not polygamy is really an abomination.

[_Jason Bourne]

No surprise a Mormon has to redefine a doctrine/work/tenet/idea in order to accommodate belief. However, Jason, you do realize you're an apostate with that "more than one path to God" idea, no?

I guess so. A damn hypocritical apostate. But I keep it to myself accept for here and I imagine I am going to hell.

[_Jason Bourne]

quote]I think this is keen insight. I do not think it is as TD posited, that these men do not love their wives or families. [/quote]

Do you really think BY loved all his wives? Really? Do you think Joseph Smith really deeply loved (not to be confused with, was attracted to), all the girls and women he "married?"

I was referring to the ones asked to give up wives. How Joseph Smith and BY felt about their wives I cannot tell. I am not inside their heads. I think they loved them though. Did they nurture them well? I do not see how they could with so many.

I do not think most in the 19th century were like that. Henry Jacobs certainly adored Zina it seems, at least based on his letters.

I agree that Henry loved his wife and suffered his whole life because of what Joseph Smith did to his family.

Modern day LDS men really see this in the abstract for the most part. It is not real in the here and now.

Why don't some TBM men seem to even remotely have compassion for Henry and others whose wife and children were taken from him for eternity? Why do some men not like the idea of another man having sex with his wife but are totally fine with the idea that a priesthood leaders can take her, along with their children for ETERNITY?

How do they explain this as of God?

I think the some is a small few. I do not think most LDS men are pining away for a "harem" and I think most LDS men as I noted think of this in abstract or not at all. Most who think about it think that some understanding will be given in the next life.

Oh there may be a few who look forward to many wives in the eternal realm. I do not think most do and most don't give it much thought. If they do they call it a hard doctrine, like Coggins has here and attribute the acceptance of it to might faith. They believe that our eyes will be opened to greater understanding and we will be able to live in such a way if asked to do so in Heaven. Even Charity takes this position and talks about it being a true act of love.

How does the fact that Joseph Smith took the wives and children of other men for eternity even remotely speak of true acts of love?

I think Charity views and others view the idea of if they had to share their husband with another woman that it shows some sort of true love and faith and devotion and sacrifice to be able to do so. But you have to ask them.

I do believe that it comes down to faith... faith in Joseph Smith.

Faith that God really did call Joseph Smith and direct him on this one.

If he wants one's wife and daughter for his own wives, no problem. If he wants to take your family for eternity, well OK then.

Not for me my dear! :-)

[_Scottie]

Well, the common argument is that when we make it to the CK, we will be there because we have learned to master our petty emotions, such as jealousy. We don't even have the capacity to understand what life will be like in the CK. We like to impose our current, mortal emotions in contrast to the perfect beings we will be in the CK. Sharing spouses won't be a problem what-so-ever once we are there.

[_guy sajer]

quote]

I think Charity views and others view the idea of if they had to share their husband with another woman that it shows some sort of true love and faith and devotion and sacrifice to be able to do so. But you have to ask them.

And what sacrifice to the men make in return? How do they show their love, faith, and devotion?

By screwing multiple women and ignoring their duty to nurture their wives and children?

[_asbestosman]

And what sacrifice to the men make in return?

A honey-do list that's twice as big?

Half-serious question: how do men justify having more than one child? Doesn't the second child necessarily make them ignore part of their duties to the first? How many kids is too many? With that in mind, how many wives is too many (for safety's sake, I recommend that you state the numer is greater than 0 ;) )?

[_Jason Bourne]

quote]

I think Charity views and others view the idea of if they had to share their husband with another woman that it shows some sort of true love and faith and devotion and sacrifice to be able to do so. But you have to ask them.

And what sacrifice to the men make in return? How do they show their love, faith, and devotion?

By screwing multiple women and ignoring their duty to nurture their wives and children?

You do understand this is not my position?