Religious idiots... shut up

[_marg]

Because they're KIDS who resort to sneaking around because they have no adult sense of responsibility. I'm sorry, GoodK, this "I have a hard on, please give my gf birth control so I can use it" doctrine is getting a little old. Just because your dick works, doesn't mean you have a right to use it on someone and expect adults to pay for your gf's birth control so you can.

I don't think you are addressing the problem Jersey Girl. Not giving young kids or anyone for that matter who can't affored it, means for birth control, doesn't solve the problem of unplanned for pregnancies. Any typically the ones who in life end up getting pregnant unexpectedly are the ones who aren't knowledgable about birth control, who are uninformed, but who are sexually mature and just don't know how to handle it. Knowledge is power. It can't hurt to know about birth control, at any age.

[_Jersey Girl]

I'm sorry, GoodK, this "I have a hard on, please give my gf birth control so I can use it" doctrine is getting a little old. Just because your dick works, doesn't mean you have a right to use it on someone and expect adults to pay for your gf's birth control so you can.

And Jersey Girl and her friends have the right to tell me what to do with my dick.

I rest my case.

Nowhere on this thread have you made a case, GoodK, unless you consider a tantrum your case. Don't involve me in paying for what you do with your dick and I won't tell you what to do with it. Screw all the girls you like, only don't ask me to fund it.

[_Jersey Girl]

Because they're KIDS who resort to sneaking around because they have no adult sense of responsibility. I'm sorry, GoodK, this "I have a hard on, please give my gf birth control so I can use it" doctrine is getting a little old. Just because your dick works, doesn't mean you have a right to use it on someone and expect adults to pay for your gf's birth control so you can.

I don't think you are addressing the problem Jersey Girl. Not giving young kids or anyone for that matter who can't affored it, means for birth control, doesn't solve the problem of unplanned for pregnancies. Any typically the ones who in life end up getting pregnant unexpectedly are the ones who aren't knowledgable about birth control, who are uninformed, but who are sexually mature and just don't know how to handle it. Knowledge is power. It can't hurt to know about birth control, at any age.

Knowledge about birth control is far different an issue than asking adults to pay for said birth control, marg. That's my position. Any young person with a computer can google up information regarding birth control, learn about it in their sex ed class, ask the school nurse about it or their parents.

What we're discussing here is just the tip of a socially pervasive ice berg for which I doubt there is a cut and dried answer.

[_marg]

Knowledge about birth control is far different an issue than asking adults to pay for said birth control, marg. That's my position. Any young person with a computer can google up information regarding birth control, learn about it in their sex ed class, ask the school nurse about it or their parents.

What we're discussing here is just the tip of a socially pervasive ice berg for which I doubt there is a cut and dried answer.

I'm not sure what the issue here is. Are you against prescriptions for the morning after pill? Are you against clinics giving this pill out? Are you against clinics giving out birth control means such as condoms and birth control pills? Are you against schools giving out birth control means, (I'm assuming they do, my kids are out of school so I don't know).?

It seems it is the lesser of evils. While free birth control might cost tax payers, unplanned pregnancies are likely to cost a heck of a lot more. I know a 30 plus woman who got pregant. Yes GoodK the same one. And currently social services is forking out $700 per month to subsidize her accomodation, she visits the food bank for food and diapers, she's probably collected unemployment cheques (yes I'm Canadian). Now she got pregnant purposefully, however had she not the same costs to tax payers would be there. It's much less costly to not have kids that to have them. Birth control costs are cheaper to all than costs on the medical system and social services necessary for those who can't afford to raise children.

[_Jersey Girl]

Knowledge about birth control is far different an issue than asking adults to pay for said birth control, marg. That's my position. Any young person with a computer can google up information regarding birth control, learn about it in their sex ed class, ask the school nurse about it or their parents.

What we're discussing here is just the tip of a socially pervasive ice berg for which I doubt there is a cut and dried answer.

I'm not sure what the issue here is. Are you against prescriptions for the morning after pill? Are you against clinics giving this pill out? Are you against clinics giving out birth control means such as condoms and birth control pills? Are you against schools giving out birth control means, (I'm assuming they do, my kids are out of school so I don't know).?

It seems it is the lesser of evils. While free birth control might cost tax payers, unplanned pregnancies are likely to cost a heck of a lot more. I know a 30 plus woman who got pregant. Yes GoodK the same one. And currently social services is forking out $700 per month to subsidize her accomodation, she visits the food bank for food and diapers, she's probably collected unemployment cheques (yes I'm Canadian). Now she got pregnant purposefully, however had she not the same costs to tax payers would be there. It's much less costly to not have kids that to have them. Birth control costs are cheaper to all than costs on the medical system and social services necessary for those who can't afford to raise children.

I'll try to answer your questions however, I might need clarification on a few of them.

1. Are you against prescriptions for the morning after pill?

In the case of underage minors and without parental awareness, yes I am. In principle I'm not at all against the morning after pill.

2. Are you against clinics giving this pill out?

I think I answered this above. Giving it out in what way? Free to underage minors without parental awareness? Yes, I'm against it and the reasons have nothing whatsoever to do with religious beliefs.

3. Are you against clinics giving out birth control means such as condoms and birth control pills?

Giving it out free without parental awareness in the case of underage minors? Yes, I'm against it.

4. Are you against schools giving out birth control means, (I'm assuming they do, my kids are out of school so I don't know).?

Are you talking about condoms? I don't know if these are given out in schools or at what level. If someone knows, I'd like them to state so here. What ages are we talking about here? High school? Middle school? Where is the line?

Although you didn't ask, I think the above is tantamount to putting a bandaid on a gaping socioeconomic wound.

[_harmony]

I'm sorry, GoodK, this "I have a hard on, please give my gf birth control so I can use it" doctrine is getting a little old. Just because your dick works, doesn't mean you have a right to use it on someone and expect adults to pay for your gf's birth control so you can.

And Jersey Girl and her friends have the right to tell me what to do with my dick.

I rest my case.

Sweetie, I don't give a rat's ass what you do with your dick, as long as I don't have to pay for it in the end. Unfortunately, there are altogether too many children like you running around who haven't grown up enough to be given the right to do what you want to with your dick, because you and they want the fun without the responsibility. Buy your own contraceptives, condoms, whatever. Ever heard of that? Buy your own damn contraceptives! Why should the American taxpayer have to pay for your or anyone else's contraceptives? Oh yeah... because otherwise, we'd have to pay for the abortions or pay for the chlid for the next 18 years.

Grow up. Geez, I'm starting to feel you did your dad a favor by rebelling. What a piece of work you are.

[_marg]

I'll try to answer your questions however, I might need clarification on a few of them.

1. Are you against prescriptions for the morning after pill?

In the case of underage minors and without parental awareness, yes I am. In principle I'm not at all against the morning after pill.

2. Are you against clinics giving this pill out?

I think I answered this above. Giving it out in what way? Free to underage minors without parental awareness? Yes, I'm against it and the reasons have nothing whatsoever to do with religious beliefs.

3. Are you against clinics giving out birth control means such as condoms and birth control pills?

Giving it out free without parental awareness in the case of underage minors? Yes, I'm against it.

So you are okay with clinics giving out birth control as long as it's not to underage minors...I guess that's under 18 years of age.

So why is age the differentiating criteria for you? Who is going to bear the brunt of the costs of unplanned for pregnancies which may have occurred simply because the young individual was sexual mature, but uniformed, and poorly prepared to deal with that sexual maturity? Their parents should handle the costs? Why are they to blame for the sexual maturity but mental immaturity of their teens? And what if they can't? Obviously in the U.S. there's going to be medical costs for prenatal care and the birth... at whose expense? Just because there is a legal age of maturity does not mean it equates with when an individual becomes sexual mature. And just because someone is sexually mature, does not mean they are mentally mature. So at this point it doesn't appear you've made a congent argument why legal age of maturity should be the criteria of whether or not to give out free birth control, since free birth control doesn't appear to be the main issue for you.

Ok it's our second day of summer here in Vancouver, over 80 degrees, it's been winter up until now, I'm going outside to enjoy it. Will look back at this later.

[_Jersey Girl]

Sweetie, I don't give a rat's ass what you do with your dick, as long as I don't have to pay for it in the end. Unfortunately, there are altogether too many children like you running around who haven't grown up enough to be given the right to do what you want to with your dick, because you and they want the fun without the responsibility. Buy your own contraceptives, condoms, whatever. Ever heard of that? Buy your own damn contraceptives! Why should the American taxpayer have to pay for your or anyone else's contraceptives? Oh yeah... because otherwise, we'd have to pay for the abortions or pay for the chlid for the next 18 years.

Grow up. Geez, I'm starting to feel you did your dad a favor by rebelling. What a piece of work you are.

That's exactly where I'm coming from here, harmony. This has nothing at all to do with religion. It has to do with responsibility taking. If you want to ride the ride, buy your own damn ticket.

[_Chap]

I'm sorry, GoodK, this "I have a hard on, please give my gf birth control so I can use it" doctrine is getting a little old. Just because your dick works, doesn't mean you have a right to use it on someone and expect adults to pay for your gf's birth control so you can.

And Jersey Girl and her friends have the right to tell me what to do with my dick.

I rest my case.

Sweetie, I don't give a rat's ass what you do with your dick, as long as I don't have to pay for it in the end. Unfortunately, there are altogether too many children like you running around who haven't grown up enough to be given the right to do what you want to with your dick, because you and they want the fun without the responsibility. Buy your own contraceptives, condoms, whatever. Ever heard of that? Buy your own damn contraceptives! Why should the American taxpayer have to pay for your or anyone else's contraceptives? Oh yeah... because otherwise, we'd have to pay for the abortions or pay for the chlid for the next 18 years.

The last sentence above explains why, although I would prefer the young to opt either for abstinence or for having sex with contraceptives paid for out of their pocket-money, I nonetheless opt (with a sad sigh) to pay for them to be given contraceptives if they want them, so that I shan't have to meet much heavier financial and social costs later on.

Ain't it a tough world? But it appears to be the one we are stuck with.

[_Jersey Girl]

Chap,

I'm going to respond to those last sentences of harmony's in another way. Here they are:

Why should the American taxpayer have to pay for your or anyone else's contraceptives? Oh yeah... because otherwise, we'd have to pay for the abortions or pay for the chlid for the next 18 years.

1. Foot the bill for contraceptives to underage minors.
2. Pay for abortions for underage minors.
3. Pay for the child is who is the result of unprotected sex by underage minors.

Are these the only available choices? That seems to be the picture that GoodK presents.

It seems to me that society and specifically parents are willing to go belly up on their own children based on the above choices. Is this the best we can come up with?