Religious idiots... shut up

[_Jersey Girl]

No Bond, not abstinence per se. And GoodK, I'm going to present my alternative in just a few minutes. I spent the last few trying to dig out an old post of mine but the search results are too many to go through.

[_Jersey Girl]

GoodK,

Thoughout the entirety of this thread, you've presented no other alternative except dispensing of free birth control to underage minors vs teen pregnancy. You present teens as if they are helpless, thoughtless, victims of their own impulses without the capacity to think beyond the moment for which taxpayers should foot the bill for said moment by dispensing free contraceptives. You have yet to specify an age range to which you think free contraceptives should be supplied, not stated whether or not you think this should be done with/without parental awareness, you haven't discussed short/long term side effects of oral contraceptives and you simply think that tax payers should open their wallets to dispense some sort of magic pill or whatever "or else". What nonsense.

Here is my proposal and it doesn't involve a chicken egg. It involves real children.

Children and adults function most successfully in society based on the level of their sense of belonging and investment. Having said that, my proposal would involve social reform.

1. Begin education in nutrition, child development, child rearing practices, and sex education early on in say, the middle school years and repeat these units of education through high school.

2. Teach parenting skills (on top of the aforementioned courses) in High School, a course designed to span all 4 years.

3. Make community service required in the form of a set number of hours for High Schoolers working in child care settings as lab work to reinforce the courses they're taking in lecture form, giving them hands on experiences with infants, toddlers and preschoolers that would include investing in their day to day care and learning.


Contributing to the care of dependent children, has the potential to raise the quality of childcare services in our society, raise the level of investment and sense of belonging in teens, give teens a realistic idea of what it takes to care for a dependent child, an appreciation and respect for their own role in society and the contributions they can make, empower them to think beyond the moment to the future and take responsiblity for the choices that effect their own life chances.

I can expand on any part of this if you like. There are other ways to "connect" besides sex, GoodK, and might I add that there are other ways to have sex beyond those that involve dispensing free birth control vs teen pregnancy. This "we want it all and we want someone else to pay for it" is dependent thinking at it's worst and teaches positively nothing that is useful long term.

[_beastie]

Good luck with that, Jersey Girl.

[_GoodK]

Good luck with that, Jersey Girl.

No kidding. While Jersey Girl's solution sounds noble, we all know it would never work in the real world. And how expensive is this comprehensive proposal, Jersey Girl? Do you really think your proposal will cost taxpayers less than birth control? Then why would you propose it? Because you find it more moral than giving out birth control?

[_Roger Morrison]

Jersey Gal, i tried to reply earlier but lost it cyber-space :-( Soooo, here goes again. I'll inject in bold :-)

Children and adults function most successfully in society based on the level of their sense of belonging and investment. RM: Not sure what you mean by investment?? Having said that, my proposal would involve social reform.

1. Begin education in nutrition, child development, child rearing practices, and sex education early on in say, the middle school years and repeat these units of education through high school. RM: How about earlier? A lot earlier, relative to their age. But yes, i'm with ya.

2. Teach parenting skills (on top of the aforementioned courses) in High School, a course designed to span all 4 years. RM: Should have been done decades ago. But could parents admit their dysfunctions. LOL!

3. Make community service required in the form of a set number of hours for High Schoolers working in child care settings as lab work to reinforce the courses they're taking in lecture form, giving them hands on experiences with infants, toddlers and preschoolers that would include investing in their day to day care and learning. RM: Great idea! When literacy is achieved, get into life skills that really matter. Foot-ball & all?? A diversion that dumbies-down.


Contributing to the care of dependent children, has the potential to raise the quality of childcare services in our society, raise the level of investment and sense of belonging in teens, give teens a realistic idea of what it takes to care for a dependent child, an appreciation and respect for their own role in society and the contributions they can make, empower them to think beyond the moment to the future and take responsiblity for the choices that effect their own life chances. RM: Absolutilll! Good nurturing tends to those objectives. Unfortunately our evolution is slooooow. Yet even to express the fundamentals of a good society/family/self as you, and other thinking folks do, places it visibly on an agenda that as better educated candidates, with more social than economic and military priorities....

I can expand on any part of this if you like. There are other ways to "connect" besides sex, GoodK, and might I add that there are other ways to have sex beyond those that involve dispensing free birth control vs teen pregnancy. This "we want it all and we want someone else to pay for it" is dependent thinking at it's worst and teaches positively nothing that is useful long term. RM: You're diverging a bit here Jersey Girl. I think you should consider the, "...we want it all..." attitude is a primary artificial/indoctrinated force that drives American culture. Don't have the money? No problemo, we'll lend it to you :-)... Such stupidity, and it ain't even religious, has the USA on its knees... Blah, Blah, Blah...

You're on the right track Jersey Girl. Why don't you run for a positions on your local School Board? How to do it: Attend all of the public Board meetings you can. Talk to the incumbents, pro and con. Write Letters-To-The-Editor. Get nominated, and go for it. Obama can only do so much :-) I concure with Beastie! Warm regards, Roger

[_Jersey Girl]

Good luck with that, Jersey Girl.

No kidding. While Jersey Girl's solution sounds noble, we all know it would never work in the real world. And how expensive is this comprehensive proposal, Jersey Girl? Do you really think your proposal will cost taxpayers less than birth control? Then why would you propose it? Because you find it more moral than giving out birth control?

Stop waving that flag in my face, GoodK. The proposal has little to do with "morality" and more to do with social and educational reform in our country. Parents appear to be unwilling to invest in the psychological well being of their children (and the greater society as a whole) and would rather literally throw a condom at their "kid" and tell them to get screwed, is what I'm getting at here.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with religion or morality. Show me any post of mine on this thread that indicates my focus has ever been one of "morality". Stop trying to arm wrestle me into the religion camp. That's not my focus at all.

How expensive would it be? Where do you see additional expense? Are psychology, sociology and science already part of the higher level curriculum? Do school districts already employ nurses, counselors and PE instructors?

Where do you see "expensive"?

You are aware, are you not, of the concept of continuum classes and mentoring programs? This is the same exact thing applied at a higher level of education.

Here is my question once again: Where do you see "expensive"?

[_beastie]

Our society mouths a lot of platitudes about putting children first. But we don't put children first.

Today, in the US, the educational system is completely geared towards basic academic competency tests. Schools - particularly those in low income areas - barely have the time and resources to teach music or art, much less add another curriculum (and yes, your last suggestion requiring basic community service in high school will required additional funds)

[_Moniker]

I don't even understand why this thread devolved into dealing with teens and contraceptives. It's a fact that there are women (and teens-- yet let's not get sidetracked on that) that wish to get a prescription filled for contraceptives that are turned away because the pharmacists religious beliefs do not allow for it. The morning after pill is not filled by some pharmacists. If anyone walks into a pharmacy with a prescription from a doctor or nurse practitioner and they are turned away because of religious reasons this is problematic, for me.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... pill_x.htm

For a year, Julee Lacey stopped in a CVS pharmacy near her home in a Fort Worth suburb to get refills of her birth-control pills. Then one day last March, the pharmacist refused to fill Lacey's prescription because she did not believe in birth control.

"I was shocked," says Lacey, 33, who was not able to get her prescription until the next day and missed taking one of her pills. "Their job is not to regulate what people take or do. It's just to fill the prescription that was ordered by my physician."

Some pharmacists, however, disagree and refuse on moral grounds to fill prescriptions for contraceptives. And states from Rhode Island to Washington have proposed laws that would protect such decisions.

These are women that are being responsible and may be MARRIED and not wish to have children. That a pharmacist relies on the "fantasies" that GoodK talks about and ignores the realities of responsible parent planning is what this comes down to, for me.

[_Jersey Girl]

I don't even understand why this thread devolved into dealing with teens and contraceptives.

What do you mean by "devolved"? The exchanges between myself and GoodK were based on this line:

Kevorkian spent 8 years in the joint, and kids can't get birth control because of you idiots.

From GoodK's Opening Post.

That is to say, these exchanges are one of many subtopics that have been taken up for discussion based on the OP.

[_Jersey Girl]

Our society mouths a lot of platitudes about putting children first. But we don't put children first.

Today, in the US, the educational system is completely geared towards basic academic competency tests. Schools - particularly those in low income areas - barely have the time and resources to teach music or art, much less add another curriculum (and yes, your last suggestion requiring basic community service in high school will required additional funds)

What kinds of additional funds are you thinking of, beastie?