*sigh*

[_LifeOnaPlate]

But not here. Why? I've seen what some TBM dicks do with personal information: they follow the tradition of personal smear campaigns historically established by Joseph Smith.

What about the non-TBM folks who do the same, perhaps more so? Why limit the tomfoolery and underhanded stalker-like behavior to "TBM" people?

[_Yoda]

But not here. Why? I've seen what some TBM dicks do with personal information: they follow the tradition of personal smear campaigns historically established by Joseph Smith.

What about the non-TBM folks who do the same, perhaps more so? Why limit the tomfoolery and underhanded stalker-like behavior to "TBM" people?

There are extreme dickheads on both sides of the aisle. ;)

Don't be a stranger, Harm.

Do you have my email address?

[_Sam Harris]

Anyone have any suggestions of forums more spiritually oriented or even faith based, Christ oriented without dealing so much with the infection of dogma and zeolotry?

I've tired of the poo all the monkeys throw at each other here - and even throw at others on other boards. I'm more interested in discussions on regaining balance and peace rather than taking a piece out of someone.

Have you tried beliefnet.com? They separate the debate forums from the other religious forums, and have many different ones. And they're moderated in truth, not principle. Even on the debate forums, you can only go so far.

I think explorefaith.org might have a forum, but even if they don't, its a site that though it has roots in Christianity, doesn't press you into any one path or piece of dogma.

I personally am tired of the religious debate. What I've learned from this place is that from the TBM perspective, Evangelicals are evil, and will stay hateful fundamentalists even if you point out Evangelicals who are not this way. A TBM can tell you every belief that Evangelicals have, and even if you do attempt to show that perhaps they are interpreting things wrong, they have a family member that fits their description, or they know someone who knows someone, and that alone rules out anything you can bring forth, even if you are telling them that you yourself are an Evangelical and don't think this way. From the fundamentalist atheist exmo perspective, ANYONE who believes in God is missing their frontal lobe. From the pundits, your brain just can't compute if you're not willing to pour over books and websites to be an apologist. It doesn't matter that some people just copy and paste their arguments, this is considered dialogue. To me, dialogue meant that each party walked away having learned and accepted something new, a kind of trade of sorts, not a bunch of folks trying to prove one another wrong.

I was once childish enough to think that there were many people who discussed religion because they wanted to build bridges and change things for the better. Now I know better, most people are just trying to justify their own paths. Me, I don't care what you are, just do it with some honor, and leave me alone to walk my way. But I should not speak of that (honor), because I don't possess that.

Try B'net. I think you might like it there.

[_Mister Scratch]

But not here. Why? I've seen what some TBM dicks do with personal information: they follow the tradition of personal smear campaigns historically established by Joseph Smith.

What about the non-TBM folks who do the same, perhaps more so? Why limit the tomfoolery and underhanded stalker-like behavior to "TBM" people?

Because it is primarily TBMs, such as DCP, Pahoran, and juliann who cross the line over into interfering with people's actual in real life lives---i.e., via contacting people's families, or by posting material which is not freely available on the Web.

[_Sam Harris]

My opinion: I'm tired of threads about masturbation, humor about homosexuality, and other personal subjects. I'm tired of unsupported statistics, claims made with no foundation, and personal speculation about the real lives of posters and how to destroy them.

Time for an unscheduled leave of absense. Maybe something that has some substance to it will pop up while I'm gone.

You will be back. You have no other life outside of these boards.

How funny. B&L makes thinks Harm has not life yet he gets his thrills by pretending to be an interested person with LDS missionaries on line.

Don't speak against the popular ones at Degrassi.

[_Sam Harris]

But not here. Why? I've seen what some TBM dicks do with personal information: they follow the tradition of personal smear campaigns historically established by Joseph Smith.

What about the non-TBM folks who do the same, perhaps more so? Why limit the tomfoolery and underhanded stalker-like behavior to "TBM" people?

Because it is primarily TBMs, such as DCP, Pahoran, and juliann who cross the line over into interfering with people's actual in real life lives---I.e., via contacting people's families, or by posting material which is not freely available on the Web.

What about going to someone anonymously, posing to be something you're not, and then systematically flooding the stranger with information that will at the least confuse them, most definitely hurt them, and perhaps (hopefully for those who insist this is what is needed) "enlighten" them out of the church?

Just because you don't know the person's name doesn't mean your actions have no weight.

[_moksha]

Have you tried beliefnet.com? They separate the debate forums from the other religious forums, and have many different ones. And they're moderated in truth, not principle. Even on the debate forums, you can only go so far.

Took the words from my mouth. Also, Harmony might like http://www.LDS.net/forums

[_Sam Harris]

Trust that the Mormon B'net forums are a bit more benign, even the debate forum. Mok is a mod on one of those forums, and the people that I've spoken with there over the years have long since let go of their anger. We all went through it, the exmos. It got to be a zoo over there once, and a lot of changes were made which make B'net a better place. It was exodus from B'net which took me to FAIR, exodus from FAIR which brought me here, and I go to b'net to talk about that which is laughed at here, the possibility of a spiritual life outside of religion.

I have a profile on LDS.net, though I haven't found many subjects to jump in on there. Compared to what I have and am currently dealing with, Mormonism was an unpleasant second in the span of my life.

[_Mister Scratch]

But not here. Why? I've seen what some TBM dicks do with personal information: they follow the tradition of personal smear campaigns historically established by Joseph Smith.

What about the non-TBM folks who do the same, perhaps more so? Why limit the tomfoolery and underhanded stalker-like behavior to "TBM" people?

Because it is primarily TBMs, such as DCP, Pahoran, and juliann who cross the line over into interfering with people's actual in real life lives---I.e., via contacting people's families, or by posting material which is not freely available on the Web.

What about going to someone anonymously, posing to be something you're not, and then systematically flooding the stranger with information that will at the least confuse them, most definitely hurt them, and perhaps (hopefully for those who insist this is what is needed) "enlighten" them out of the church?

Just because you don't know the person's name doesn't mean your actions have no weight.

Fair enough. However, Blixa was specifically referring to what posters do with personal, in real life information, which is something different from what you're describing. In what you mention, I would think that at least half the blame lies with the Church, which failed to properly and fully inform members of the "meat."

[_Sam Harris]

Oh quit that. Malicious intent is malicious intent. I am sorry for those who have been sought out by the likes of Julia** Reynolds et al. But people seriously need to stop saying it's the Church's fault that they go on chat websites with the intention of picking with missionaries.

Once again, if we were to apply the line of reasoning used against Mormons to any other situation or demographic, it would not fit.

Yes, people have had some horrible experiences as Mormons. But you know what? There are people who have horrible experiences outside of Mormonism who do not see the need to return to debate with or engage with that which has hurt them.

There are people in the world with parents who are seriously ill, and said parents have abused, maligned, and hurt in every way. Those people maintain their innocence, and leave their children to suffer. But those children do not always spend their time on websites maligning that which abused them. They vent, they get over it, and they move on, because they realize that to dwell on the situation could potentiall cause them to be that which they abhor.

Unfortunately, there are some on this website who have simply swung from one end of the fundamentalist spectrum to the other. They have gone from trying to be among the most pious Mormons to believing that there is nothing good in the church, or religion in general. And they cannot see how that smacks of hypocrisy.

Even in my anger at the church, I could not flat out say that every Latter-day Saint was corrupt, that every aspect of the church was corrupt, or even that all religion was corrupt. I left open a window for the sake of other people, because I had the hope that it might one day be left open for me.

Heaven forbid that some of our most rabid atheists on here, especially the one who put on his Superman cape the other day and shouted "atheists unite!!", would one day find a spiritual bone in their bodies. How would they recant their statements?

I'm so sick of, "the Mormons made us do it".