Mr. Kerry's current video:
-
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 1:16 am
I would have been happy to look at any evidence he brought up in that video, but sadly he didn't offer any kind in that 10 minute span.
What he brought up in the video:
1. People really don't know that much, really just basically very limited on knowledge. And we'll never have enough time in our lives to change that.
2. There is no such thing as objectivity, everyone has an agenda
3. There's no obligation to prove that the Book of Abraham is true
4. God wants you to use your heart, and he will speak to your heart
and my favorite
5. Even though we don't have archaeological or historical evidence or answers right now doesn't mean the Book of Abraham is false.
[sarcasm] Wow, we all need to stop our questions! This guy has obviously found all our answers. [/sarcasm]
What he brought up in the video:
1. People really don't know that much, really just basically very limited on knowledge. And we'll never have enough time in our lives to change that.
2. There is no such thing as objectivity, everyone has an agenda
3. There's no obligation to prove that the Book of Abraham is true
4. God wants you to use your heart, and he will speak to your heart
and my favorite
5. Even though we don't have archaeological or historical evidence or answers right now doesn't mean the Book of Abraham is false.
[sarcasm] Wow, we all need to stop our questions! This guy has obviously found all our answers. [/sarcasm]
-
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 3059
- Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:57 pm
Jersey Girl wrote:As much as I disagree with Kerry's apologetics, I see no one on this thread addressing the actual content of this video.
I watched it.
The content is the following
1) You can ask all sort of good questions about the Book of Mormon dealing with topics that present problems for it and that LDS have no good answers but that doesn't prove its not true. (Umm, OK)
2) Even though he has read thousands of books we humans are all stupid (just think of all the books in the library you haven't read!). So, we should not think with our brains but with our hearts--thats how we will find the truth--by thinking with our hearts.
3) Some testimony bearing concerning Jesus.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
-
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 4627
- Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:49 am
Mercury wrote:Someone has posted a video reply while testing out his isight camera on his Macbook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur0C9Cwwh0
LOL. Did you know that you look like Ethan Suplee from My Name Is Earl Mercury?
Also, check out Kerry's response to your video:
There is no evidence where you look. I understand you disagree, but I find evidence all over the place. I have over 50 evidences shown thus far. Your assertions don't change the facts. But thank you for voicing your opinions.
Evidence all over the place? Really?
And I love the irony in "your assertions don't change the facts" being said to a critic who is saying what probably 99.9999% of people would say.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
-
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 34407
- Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am
I still haven't watched this video but...in bold text...
I have never seen Kerry Shirts claim to have "found all our answers". Not once, not ever. Nor has he ever discouraged anyone from questioning. He questions and searches himself which I assume is the catalyst for his videos. I haven't watched this though.
TygerFang wrote:I would have been happy to look at any evidence he brought up in that video, but sadly he didn't offer any kind in that 10 minute span.
What he brought up in the video:
1. People really don't know that much, really just basically very limited on knowledge. And we'll never have enough time in our lives to change that.
This is true.
2. There is no such thing as objectivity, everyone has an agenda
True.
3. There's no obligation to prove that the Book of Abraham is true
True.
4. God wants you to use your heart, and he will speak to your heart
I'd have to hear this in context.
and my favorite
5. Even though we don't have archaeological or historical evidence or answers right now doesn't mean the Book of Abraham is false.
Well, that could be thought of as true however, the evidence against the Book of Abraham is very strong.
[sarcasm] Wow, we all need to stop our questions! This guy has obviously found all our answers. [/sarcasm]
I have never seen Kerry Shirts claim to have "found all our answers". Not once, not ever. Nor has he ever discouraged anyone from questioning. He questions and searches himself which I assume is the catalyst for his videos. I haven't watched this though.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Chinese Proverb
-
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 34407
- Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am
Bond...James Bond wrote:Mercury wrote:Someone has posted a video reply while testing out his isight camera on his Macbook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur0C9Cwwh0
LOL. Did you know that you look like Ethan Suplee from My Name Is Earl Mercury?
Also, check out Kerry's response to your video:There is no evidence where you look. I understand you disagree, but I find evidence all over the place. I have over 50 evidences shown thus far. Your assertions don't change the facts. But thank you for voicing your opinions.
Evidence all over the place? Really?
And I love the irony in "your assertions don't change the facts" being said to a critic who is saying what probably 99.9999% of people would say.
Okay, I still haven't watched the video yet but I do think I understand what he means in that reply regarding assertions/facts. First, I want to compliment Vegas for his respectful video reply there. I watched it and was impressed by the temperate nature of his comments. Now, if I only find a moment to watch the video in question!
"Your assertions don't change the facts"...on one hand, I think he's saying that he thinks/believes that he's compiled evidences in favor of the Book of Mormon. I disagree that the Book of Mormon is anything other than the borrowing of Solomon Spalding and other sources by Sidney Rigdon and others. Having said that...one of the principles that Kerry has always held to is that there are discoveries yet to be made. I agree with that in principle. For example, in ancient times people asserted that the earth was flat. That assertion didn't change the fact that the earth is round but they couldn't have known it at the time. When the discovery was made that the earth was round (Who did that, Galileo? I forget. Science isn't my bag.) it uncovered "fact".
I think that Kerry is saying that (1) He believes he has collected evidences in favor of the Book of Mormon and (2) That there are more evidences to be found.
Okay, that was my best shot on short notice.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Chinese Proverb
-
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 2750
- Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm
-
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 34407
- Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am
dartagnan wrote:These guys love to attack straw men. It gives thema sense of victory and purpose.
If I am not mistaken, you yourself were engaged in apologetics so I will take your comment as coming from one who has the experience and knowledge with which to make it.
I'm gonna go watch the video now, finally!
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Chinese Proverb
-
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 34407
- Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am
Okay, I'm an idiot and I admit that freely! I should have paid better attention because I already saw this video. Geez.
tumult said something in one of the posts here that he didn't supply evidences. That's not the purpose of the video. From what I can see, the page is filled with videos in which he presents evidences. The purpose of this video, is really a commentary on some concepts. Some of with which I agree others, I don't.
I took notes! :-) These are the ones I could copy down fast enough.
Kerry addressing critic attitudes:
"I've got the question, therefore the Book of Mormon is false"
Me: I disagree there. Most of the critics I read (and that's not alot in the grand scheme) are not presenting questions as their "case". The critics are asking questions that refer to problem areas in the Book of Mormon that have been researched by critics (like beastie's web site) and asking for refutation by apologists.
Kerry again:
"A question is not a refutation"
Me: I don't think that's the point. What lies beneath the question "What about steel in the Book of Mormon" are evidences collected by critics and others (certainly even apologists) that give no creedence to steel in the Book of Mormon.
Kerry again:
"Just because a question is asked does not mean the Book of Mormon is proven false."
(Kerry, where are you? I wish you were here to dialogue this out.)
Me: I don't think that's the problem. The problem again, is that the critic is asking a question underneath which lies a body of evidences they wish for you to refute if possible. It's the evidences they would like you to address, not the question itself. What would be more effective, I think, is for apologists to take the critics body of evidences and go through them one by one and systematically refute them if possible.
Kerry again:
"We're not obligated to prove the Book of Mormon true to the world."
Me: I agree. If I am not mistaken, we're held to 1Peter 3:15. Also held to testing the scriptures but at the moment, I can't recollect the chapter/verse for that. I was doing good to come up with 1 Peter!
Kerry again:
Kerry on Books/Knowledge:
"The more I read the more I realize I don't know anything."
Me: Accurate and honest statement for anyone to make.
Kerry on Learning:
"We physically don't have enough time to learn very much."
Me: Again, accurate and honest.
I collected more quotes but don't feel they belong in this particular post.
Kerry, where are you? Shall I summon you from the vastness of cyber space? I could use my great powers....
:-)
tumult said something in one of the posts here that he didn't supply evidences. That's not the purpose of the video. From what I can see, the page is filled with videos in which he presents evidences. The purpose of this video, is really a commentary on some concepts. Some of with which I agree others, I don't.
I took notes! :-) These are the ones I could copy down fast enough.
Kerry addressing critic attitudes:
"I've got the question, therefore the Book of Mormon is false"
Me: I disagree there. Most of the critics I read (and that's not alot in the grand scheme) are not presenting questions as their "case". The critics are asking questions that refer to problem areas in the Book of Mormon that have been researched by critics (like beastie's web site) and asking for refutation by apologists.
Kerry again:
"A question is not a refutation"
Me: I don't think that's the point. What lies beneath the question "What about steel in the Book of Mormon" are evidences collected by critics and others (certainly even apologists) that give no creedence to steel in the Book of Mormon.
Kerry again:
"Just because a question is asked does not mean the Book of Mormon is proven false."
(Kerry, where are you? I wish you were here to dialogue this out.)
Me: I don't think that's the problem. The problem again, is that the critic is asking a question underneath which lies a body of evidences they wish for you to refute if possible. It's the evidences they would like you to address, not the question itself. What would be more effective, I think, is for apologists to take the critics body of evidences and go through them one by one and systematically refute them if possible.
Kerry again:
"We're not obligated to prove the Book of Mormon true to the world."
Me: I agree. If I am not mistaken, we're held to 1Peter 3:15. Also held to testing the scriptures but at the moment, I can't recollect the chapter/verse for that. I was doing good to come up with 1 Peter!
Kerry again:
Kerry on Books/Knowledge:
"The more I read the more I realize I don't know anything."
Me: Accurate and honest statement for anyone to make.
Kerry on Learning:
"We physically don't have enough time to learn very much."
Me: Again, accurate and honest.
I collected more quotes but don't feel they belong in this particular post.
Kerry, where are you? Shall I summon you from the vastness of cyber space? I could use my great powers....
:-)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Chinese Proverb
-
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 7213
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:28 pm
My summary of the Shirts video:
Unless you know absolutely everything, don't even think of doubting your testimony. After all, there surely must be something that really does support this stuff, and after skimming several thousand books, I'm still looking for it. Please join me in the search.
Unless you know absolutely everything, don't even think of doubting your testimony. After all, there surely must be something that really does support this stuff, and after skimming several thousand books, I'm still looking for it. Please join me in the search.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
-
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 22508
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm
Trevor wrote:My summary of the Shirts video:
Unless you know absolutely everything, don't even think of doubting your testimony. After all, there surely must be something that really does support this stuff, and after skimming several thousand books, I'm still looking for it. Please join me in the search.
If only Mr. Shirts would view it as allegory rather than being literal, his search for proof would be greatly simplified.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace