Polygamy: '....part of the restoration of ALL things'???

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_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

TD wrote:The church also teaches the "Law of Moses" was replaced by the "Law of Christ"... which means what exactly? If the latter replaced the former, why must the former be lived or restored? And why not restore all their practices and rules as has the House of Yahweh? And why must anything be restored in the first place? The more I think about this the more ridiculous it sounds.



I'm glad you brought this up, TD. This is a doctrinal question I brought up on the other polygamy thread I started, and I am still waiting for an answer from any of our "doctrinal experts" here who care to take a crack at it.

Gaz stated that all of the old laws had to be restored, including the Law of Animal Sacrifice, and indicated that we would someday practice this again.

This makes no sense. The Law of Animal Sacrifice is symbolic of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. This is why the Laws of Moses were a "lower law". When Christ came to the earth, he fulfilled the lower law and introduced His higher law.

It does not make sense that an Old Testament practice, such as polygamy, which was a cultural practice, would have to be restored. It is part of the lower law.
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Post by _truth dancer »

This makes no sense. The Law of Animal Sacrifice is symbolic of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. This is why the Laws of Moses were a "lower law". When Christ came to the earth, he fulfilled the lower law and introduced His higher law.



Just to clarify, this interpretation is not how the Jews understood animal sacrifices at all, nor is it how religions other than Christianity interpret it.

Animal sacrifice, right along with human sacrifice is as old as history and originated to appease the Gods.

:-)

Nevertheless, why in the world would God want humankind to revert to primitive and animalistic behaviors, virtually removing the more enlightened, more highly evolved human from existence?

It makes no sense whatsoever. (smile)

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Post by _Yoda »

truth dancer wrote:
This makes no sense. The Law of Animal Sacrifice is symbolic of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. This is why the Laws of Moses were a "lower law". When Christ came to the earth, he fulfilled the lower law and introduced His higher law.



Just to clarify, this interpretation is not how the Jews understood animal sacrifices at all, nor is it how religions other than Christianity interpret it.

Animal sacrifice, right along with human sacrifice is as old as history and originated to appease the Gods.

:-)

Nevertheless, why in the world would God want humankind to revert to primitive and animalistic behaviors, virtually removing the more enlightened, more highly evolved human from existence?

It makes no sense whatsoever. (smile)

~dancer~


My point is, even arguing this within the realm of the LDS doctrine, itself, it makes no sense.
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Post by _cksalmon »

Boaz & Lidia wrote:How about good old animal sacrifices? Why weren't those restored?


The Strangites, at least, seem to trust Joseph Smith enough to believe they will be.

Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.
--"History of Joseph Smith," Times and Seasons, Aug 1, 1842: 865-66; D&C 13:1


Now the purpose in himself [Christ] in the winding up scene of the last dispensation is, that all things pertaining to that dispensation should be conducted precisely in accordance with the preceding dispensations. And again, God purposed in himself that there should not be an eternal fulness, until every dispensation should be fulfilled and gathered together in one . . . therefore he set the ordinances to be the same for ever and ever . . .

. . . thus we behold the keys of this priesthood consisted in obtaining the voice of Jehovah, that he talked with him [Noah] in a familiar and friendly manner, that he continued to him the keys, the covenants, the power and the glory, with which he blessed Adam at the beginning; and the offering of sacrifice, which also shall be continued at the last time; for all the ordinances and duties that ever have been required by the priesthood, under the directions and commandments of the Almighty in any of the dispensations, shall all be had in the last dispensation. Therefore all things had under the authority of the priesthood at any former period shall be had again, bringing to pass the restoration spoken of by the mouth of all the holy prophets; then shall the sons of Levi offer an acceptable offering to the Lord. 'And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord.' (See Mal. 3:3-4.)

It will be necessary here to make a few observations on the doctrine, set forth in the above quotation. As it is generally supposed that sacrifice was entirely done away with the great sacrifice was offered up—and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of sacrifice in the future, but those who assert this, are certainly not acquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the priesthood, or with the prophets.

The offering of sacrifice has ever been connected and forms a part of the duties of the priesthood. It began with the priesthood, and will be continued until after the coming of Christ from generation to generation. We frequently have mention made of the offering of sacrifice by the servants of the Most High in ancient days, prior to the law of Moses, which ordinances will be continued when the priesthood is restored with all its authority, power and blessings.

. . . These sacrifices, as well as every ordinance belonging to the priesthood, will, when the Temple of the Lord shall be built, and the sons of Levi be purified, be fully restored and attended to, then all their powers, ramifications, and blessings. This ever was and ever will exist when the powers of the Melchizedek priesthood are sufficiently manifest. Else how can the restitution of all things spoken of by all the holy prophets be brought to pass? It is not to be understood that the law of Moses will be established again with all its rites and variety of ceremonies; this has never been spoken of by the prophets; but those things which existed prior to Moses' day, namely, sacrifice, will be continued.

It may be asked by some, what necessity for sacrifice, since the great sacrifice was offered? In answer to which, if repentance, baptism, and faith existed prior to the days of Christ, what necessity for them since that time?

--Smith, "Treatise on Priesthood," handwriting of Robert B. Thompson, scribe, Oct. 5, 1840; Ehat, Andrew F. and Lydon W. Cook, comps. and eds., The Words of Joseph Smith (Provo: BYU, 1980), 38-44; Roberts, B. H., History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Salt Lake City: Deseret, 1949), 207-212; Smith, Joseph F., comp., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret, 1976), 166-173.


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Post by _Dr. Shades »

Boaz & Lidia wrote:How about good old animal sacrifices? Why weren't those restored?


According to Bruce R. McConkie's Mormon Doctrine, animal sacrifice will indeed be restored as a temple ordinance at some point in the future, probably during the Millenium (as will Blood Atonement, for what it's worth).

truth dancer wrote:First, the "everything must be restored," idea, what is this?


It was the brainchild of Sidney Rigdon. At first, Joseph was quite happy with a bare-bones replication of Nineteenth Century-style Protestantism, but Sidney had an obsession with what he called "the Restoration of All Things." Sidney had Joseph's ear, and thus the policy was born.

What was restored besides polygamy and the "priesthood"?


The United Order was one of them. Another was the restoration of the office of High Priest, which originally didn't exist in early Mormonism (since Christ was originally considered to be the last and greatest High Priest).
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Post by _KimberlyAnn »

I wonder why Joseph Smith didn't restore circumcision?

Probably because it would have had a negative effect on male conversions.

KA

PS. Come to think of it, wasn't Joseph Smith out to restore pre-Mosaic practices? Polygamy, animal sacrifice, circumcision--all were pre-Mosaic. If Smith had lived long enough, it's likely he would have restored animal sacrifice and circumcision. But, if Joseph Smith weren't already circumcised, I'm sure there would have been a revelation exempting him.
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Post by _karl61 »

KimberlyAnn wrote:I wonder why Joseph Smith didn't restore circumcision?

Probably because it would have had a negative effect on male conversions.

KA


you do not have to restore something since it was being practiced but if it was done away with then do away with it and keep it away - torturing new born males should be something of the past not present.
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Post by _asbestosman »

Why didn't they restore the various Jewish Feasts? I understand that the Passover has been replaced with Easter, but what about the other ones?
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Post by _the road to hana »

bcspace wrote:
If I understand the story correctly, Christ came to the earth and setup a church. So since the excuse has been that polygamy/polyandry were part of a complete restoration of Christ's church, exactly as it was when Christ set it up, where was this supposedly important principle of plural marriage discussed and detailed in the New Testament??


Why would plural marriage have to exist in New Testament times in order to also qualify as part of a restoration of all things? What about the qualifier of Jacob 2:30 which would also have to be restored by your logic?



The problem LDS run into with this argument is coming up against the New Covenant/Old Covenant issue, which is that with the advent of Jesus Christ, the old was done away with and the new was established.

Unless LDS are arguing that Jesus Christ was incorrect in doing that, and that the Old Covenant needs to be restored, it makes no sense.
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Re: Polygamy: '....part of the restoration of ALL things'???

Post by _RockHeaded »

Boaz & Lidia wrote:In another thread, liz posted this reply and I thought my post needed it's own thread.

liz3564 wrote:OK...if you plug in "eternal marriage" to the search feature, you will come across a group of links. One of these is labeled, "Red Brick Store-Key Events".

Clicking on this link takes you to a group of scriptures. The last of the scriptures listed is D&C Section 132. If you click on the tab that is labeled "Readings", and then click on "Doctrinal Developments in Nauvoo", it will take you to the following .pdf file, which is part of a CES manual. If you scroll down to the section on plural marriage, it says the following:


Moreover, Joseph Smith and the Church were to accept the principle of plural marriage as part of the restoration of all things (see v. 45).
I have heard that excuse too many times with nothing to back it up.

If I understand the story correctly, Christ came to the earth and setup a church. So since the excuse has been that polygamy/polyandry were part of a complete restoration of Christ's church, exactly as it was when Christ set it up, where was this supposedly important principle of plural marriage discussed and detailed in the New Testament??

Furthermore, is there any archaeological evidence that proves polygamy was practiced by significant portion of Christ's followers???



Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Brigham Young claim that Jesus had several wives? I'm sure I read this in the Jounal of Discourses.
"… Do you believe Jesus Christ and the gospel of salvation which he revealed? So do I. Christians should cease wrangling and contending with each other, and cultivate the principles of union and friendship. I am just as ready to die defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination." Joseph Smith jr. Sermon, 1843
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