Sethbag banned at MAD

[_mbeesley]

I think they want to just talk between themselves and have gentle and fulfilling discussions with non-members/non-critics who show up. I'm not trying to be smart there - I honestly think that. And if so, well, that's their right.

Is there something wrong with wanting to have a Board that does that? Does EVERY LDS discussion board have to tolerate blatant anti-Mormon rhetoric in order to earn the MDB seal of approval?

At some point, LDS posters just get tired of responding to the same old tired rants and they want a place where they can have gentle and fulfilling discussions without wading through a lot of crap. MA&D fulfills that need. And there is nothing wrong with that.

But that isn't what MAD claims to be. They claim to welcome critics, so long as they are respectful.

Right, I think that's what I basically said.

I don't know why they can't say the same for TBM's. The respect should go both ways.

Yes, it should. And in my experience LDS posters become disrepectful because they get impatient of responding to tired, old arguments and wading through the crap. Where the discussion is gentle and fufilling, you see no disrespect.

[Guest]

I don't know why they can't say the same for TBM's. The respect should go both ways.

Yes, it should. And in my experience LDS posters become disrepectful because they get impatient of responding to tired, old arguments and wading through the crap. Where the discussion is gentle and fufilling, you see no disrespect.

Yeah, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there.

[_Mike Reed]

Total BS. I think I am done with MADb. The trigger-happy heavey-handed moderation is really pissing me off.

[_skippy the dead]

That board sucks anyway.

In the conversation that spills over from time to time about the move from zlmb and the purpose of FAIR/MADB, I get the impression that many of them prefered the board to be smaller in scope and a haven for LDS apologists to discuss among themselves without harassment or challenge. It's not a bad purpose and the only thing that could go wrong is if LDS apologists stick to boards like that without testing themselves in the real world.

I guess their problem would be solved if they instituted some form a continuing ecclesiastical endorsement for participation. Then they could happily ruminate on all things Mormon together, without any influence of the wicked.

Of course, then selek, cdowis, pahoran, smac and juliann would have nothing to do - without the ability to pile on non-LDS, they'd be bored silly and have no purpose.

[_Chap]

I think they want to just talk between themselves and have gentle and fulfilling discussions with non-members/non-critics who show up. I'm not trying to be smart there - I honestly think that. And if so, well, that's their right.

Is there something wrong with wanting to have a Board that does that? Does EVERY LDS discussion board have to tolerate blatant anti-Mormon rhetoric in order to earn the MDB seal of approval?

At some point, LDS posters just get tired of responding to the same old tired rants and they want a place where they can have gentle and fulfilling discussions without wading through a lot of crap. MA&D fulfills that need. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Tarski, Sethbag, and The Dude, all recently banned or suspended, indulged in "blatant anti-Mormon rhetoric" (whatever that example of the fallacy of pejorative description may mean)? They posted the "same old tired rants"?

THAT is an example of "rhetoric" and a "tired old rant" if ever there was one:

Below are the MADB guidelines. Which one did Sethbag violate?


By the way, if there are LDS who want "gentle and fulfilling discussions" please note:

There is a fellowship forum for discussing topics without debating them.

The difficulty for MAD is that it wants non-LDS to take part , so they can claim it is a real discussion board - so long as they are content to be always on the losing side, argue ineffectively and submit to abuse and idiotic comments from LDS that would never be tolerated from their opponents.

Hmm ... what can we deduce from that about the strength of the LDS position?

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[Guest]

I think they want to just talk between themselves and have gentle and fulfilling discussions with non-members/non-critics who show up. I'm not trying to be smart there - I honestly think that. And if so, well, that's their right.

Is there something wrong with wanting to have a Board that does that? Does EVERY LDS discussion board have to tolerate blatant anti-Mormon rhetoric in order to earn the MDB seal of approval?

At some point, LDS posters just get tired of responding to the same old tired rants and they want a place where they can have gentle and fulfilling discussions without wading through a lot of crap. MA&D fulfills that need. And there is nothing wrong with that.

No, there is nothing wrong with that. Except it takes a while - a very long while - for interested non-LDS participants to understand that that is what is wanted. The entire board, as far as I can tell, is set up for LDS. There is one forum there for non-LDS participation. Its description is that it is for discussion between LDS and non-LDS posters. That is obviously somewhat misleading in that many "critics" are not really welcome there at all and the discussion of certain issues is not really wanted by the LDS posters. Of course, as I have repeatedly said, that is their right. They just don't make it very clear. I think they could cut down on their modding duties by 80% if they just said "Ex-members are not welcome to post here". Just as RfM says that LDS apologists are not willing to post there. It sure cuts down on a lot of flak between DCP, Allen Wyatt, et al and the RfM crowd.

Of course I understand that LDS posters want a quiet place to just chat to each other (again, the same idea as at RfM). It's just that that one forum specifically doesn't advertise itself that way. It might actually work better if no LDS posters were there except those who wish to engage "critics" and other board visitors! Haha - only half kidding there. :) What also might work well is if any LDS poster who is "tired" of all the "anti" "crap" bypasses the Discussion forum or just reads threads they like. I don't see that many blatantly anti-Mormon threads there, going by subject line and topics at least, although true enough I don't read much over there, mostly due to lack of time.

I think that a big part of the reason for all the angst about MA&D is that some people here do want to participate there but find the rules obscure and the modding imbalanced. My approach is that you just have to accept that is the way it is and try to post around that or just not go there. I think if the MA&D rules stated no ex-LDS allowed in the Discussion forum (or anywhere there?), if that is what they want, the entire problem would be solved. (You don't have the same problems in the Fellowship Forum, where non-LDS don't post, right?)

I can see both sides being tired of the sniping. I can also see some interested and well-intentioned people not being able to figure out a way to participate the way the mods and LDS posters there want them to. It is always going to be difficult to find any meeting of the minds, it would seem. Many ex- or non-LDS are really not as antagonistic as they are perceived to be. How to find common ground is the tricky bit.

[_Sethbag]

Total BS. I think I am done with MADb. The trigger-happy heavey-handed moderation is really pissing me off.

It's not like I was even a regular poster over there anymore. For many months now I'd only posted there occasionally.

I think what it boils down to is it's not allowed for a critic over there to express their belief that the LDS Prophet isn't really inspired by God. That's disrespectful of "the Prophet". Well duh. Newsflash: anybody who doesn't believe in the LDS Church will believe that the LDS Prophet isn't really inspired by God, and is just voicing his own opinions. Are people just not allowed to say the obvious? It's absurd.

And it does blow me away that I'm banned because I said there is no Lord and the LDS Prophet is just speaking for himself, and yet such utter crap can be thrown back at us by TBMs and they get away with it.

[_skippy the dead]

Guidelines for Mormon Apologetics and Discussion Board:
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This part continues to crack me up, since assignation of a copyright can only be done by a signed instrument. This has been pointed out to them, and yet they persist in pretending that they can own whatever anyone writes. Obnoxious arrogance.

[_Bond...James Bond]

That sucks. Didn't know it had happened. I was taking a break cause they were outright deleting my posts, I wish I'd give Bach an invite over here before he got banned.

[_Sethbag]

Sethbag, I hope you don't think I'm "boot licking" or anything, but between you and cinepro, you easily account for over 90% of the aggregate brainpower at MA&D. Hell, I'd love to borrow, say, 1% of your brain cells for a day just to catch a glimpse of what it's like to be you.

ROFL. In that case, Cinepro would definitely account for 80-90% of that 90%. Tarski, Tchild2, The Dude, and some others are the real braniacs over there, and whenever I read their posts I just shake my head wistfully and wish I'd thought of that. I didn't even come up with the "whom would you grant the power?" question myself. It's an adaptation of the same question Christopher Hitchens asked a group of Canadian university students, regarding freedom of speech and the power of censorship.